False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
duncan
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by duncan » Wed 1 Mar 2017 19:48

Because he isn't here?

If you have any sway, Henry, go fetch him and we can all ask him questions.

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by Henry » Wed 1 Mar 2017 20:52

He has an e-mail address. Look it up. It's given on his publications.

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by X-member » Wed 1 Mar 2017 23:18

From an earlier post in this thread:

Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme Disease)
Eugene D. Shapiro


http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org ... 2/500.full

A quote:
There is substantial evidence that there is no such entity as chronic Lyme disease. Indeed, there is not even a case definition for chronic Lyme disease. There are many websites that contain misinformation about Lyme disease....
Perhaps John J Halperin (IDSA) can help him?

Chronic Lyme disease: misconceptions and challenges for patient management

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440423/

A quote:
The medical/scientific community uses the term “chronic Lyme disease” to describe individuals with objective evidence of longstanding ongoing infection.....

duncan
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by duncan » Thu 2 Mar 2017 0:49

Great find, X-member! :D

hv808ct
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed 30 Jul 2008 4:11

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by hv808ct » Thu 2 Mar 2017 4:27

The medical/scientific community uses the term “chronic Lyme disease” to describe individuals with objective evidence of longstanding ongoing infection, while the “Lyme literate” use this term to describe individuals with chronic, life-altering symptomatology without necessarily having biologic evidence of persisting infection.

This might be considered little more than a semantic debate (as Humpty Dumpty famously said, “A word shall mean exactly what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less, it’s merely a question of who’s to be the master”). However, since the “Lyme literate” construct is used to justify prolonged courses of antimicrobial therapy with significant potential for complications, impact on community antimicrobial resistance, and consumption of health care resources, it is essential that the terms be defined with clarity.

Untreated infection, particularly with joint involvement, can be chronic, lasting years. That said, it is essential to understand that the fatigue and cognitive difficulty seen in many individuals with Lyme disease are neither caused by or evidence of nervous system infection nor in any way specific to this disease.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440423/

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by X-member » Thu 2 Mar 2017 15:03

Or perhaps professor Sven Bergström from Sweden can help Eugene D. Shapiro?

"Kronisk fästingburen borrelios" (Chronic tick-borne borreliosis)
Professor Sven Bergström


http://www.medfak.umu.se/digitalAssets/ ... gstrom.pdf

A quote:
Vad är då Lyme-borrelios? Svaret har att göra med vad som är kroniskt och inte kroniskt. Vi kan tala om tre steg: Det första är en lokal infektion kring fästingbettet, i nästa steg är bakterien mer spridd i kroppen och den går ut i blodet och till olika typer av vävnader, som hjärtat, nervsystemet och leder. Det tredje steget är vad vi kan kalla en kronisk eller ihärdig sjukdom – vilket egentligen är ett ovanligt tillstånd, dvs det är endast ett fåtal patienter som får en kronisk Lyme-borrelios. Om man behandlar med antibiotika under de båda första stadierna kommer i de flesta fallen infektionen att försvinna. Men om man inte behandlar kan den givetvis gå genom alla de tre faserna och bli just kronisk.

In English (translated with google translate and partly by me):
What is Lyme disease then? The answer has to do with what is chronic and not chronic. We can speak of three steps: The first is a local infection around the tick bite, the next step is the bacteria more widespread in the body and it goes into the blood and to different types of tissues like the heart, nervous system and joints. The third step is what we can call a chronic or persistent illness - which is basically a rare condition, ie there are only a few patients that get chronic Lyme disease. If we treat with antibiotics during the first two phases will, in most cases, the infection disappear. But if you do not treat it can of course go through all three phases and be just chronic.

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by Henry » Thu 2 Mar 2017 15:34

There are not many reports describing the natural history of Lyme disease in untreated patients. However, this one is very revealing: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21173795 .
In this case, the patient was cured by the recommended regimen of oral antibiotics (doxycycline) after being untreated for 4 years.

X-member
Posts: 3954
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by X-member » Thu 2 Mar 2017 15:44

Henry, have you seen the thread below?

IDSA: "Relapse may occur with any of these regimens..."

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =11&t=6244

duncan
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by duncan » Thu 2 Mar 2017 15:50

Henry's case study that he kindly provided a link to, ultimately represents little more than an anecdote that got written up concerning a Lyme case that - based on the abstract - appears limited to joint involvement. It represents "a" history of one possible progression of untreated Lyme, and then apparent symptom resolution following what technically goes beyond the usual abx therapy.

I've another. This person went untreated for six years following the removal of several embedded ticks. He was declined prophylactic treatment because that was what the doctors were told the protocol to be, despite it being a Lyme endemic area. Despite at least two subsequent EMs, the patient was not tested and treated until six years had past (he was found at the time to be 2T compliant).

By this time, symptoms had progressed and were primarily neurological. In his case, treatment was not successful in resolving symptoms.

Regardless of all that, thanks both to X-member's and hv808ct's diligence, it would appear that other mainstream Lyme clinicians/researchers would disagree with the definition of chronic Lyme disease put forth in the article this thread primarily discusses.

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: False and Misleading Information about Lyme Disease.

Post by Henry » Thu 2 Mar 2017 17:16

The criticisms that you (Duncan) raise in paragraph #1 can just as well be applied to the example you gave in paragraph #2. There is no reason to believe that the case described in paragraph #2 is at all typical of what some believe to be characteristic of "chronic Lyme disease", however one chooses to define it. In fact, the case history described in paragraph #2 may be so unique that one must wonder whether it is appropriate to make any general statements as to how it may or not apply to "chronic Lyme disease". It likewise is anecdotal.

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