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A question about treatment for babesia duncani

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A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby katrina » Tue 24 Mar 2009 6:21

Is anyone aware of the most effective treatment for Babesia Duncani? I am curious as to the best strategies and duration of time required for effective treatment.

Can anyone shed light on this issue?

Many Thanks.
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby cave76 » Tue 24 Mar 2009 16:45

Bumping up.

Esp. to ask if the treatment for B duncani is the same as that being rx'd for the other Babs.
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby Joe Ham » Tue 24 Mar 2009 19:39

Just my experience, FWIW;

The only distinct symptom of Babs that I recognized was mid day sweats, not night sweats.

Nick at Igenex recommended that since I was in New Mexico I should be tested for B.microti. However maybe Nick didn't recognize that New Mexico is a western state. (Almost all U.S. states are east of Palo Alto, Calif where Igenex is located.)

So I tested for B.duncani, Igenex #5080. IgM, IgG and FISH were all positive. Nick recommended retesting after treatment at 4 to 6 weeks, and said that 8 weeks would be better unless symptoms returned.

I did the standard Mepron / Zith protocol of about a month. I did it by the numbers except for the first day I took 3 doses about 8 hrs apart, my version of a loading dose.

I had no side effects at all. I did not take any supplements or herbals and the only foods that I avoided were grapefruit and cranberry.

Retesting at 8 weeks was all negative and I've had no return of symptoms in the subsequent 3 months. Treating for Babs has resulted in a marked, almost dramatic, improvement of my health.
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby cave76 » Tue 24 Mar 2009 20:30

Thanks, Joe (I avoided calling you Porky LOL)

So, from your experience the pos. duncani was treated just the same as microti and WA1.

I've never had more than a very few sweats----- and they've disappeared also, with no tx of Babs, yet,----- but soon.

But every time I've read of a sure-fire 'symptom' I can always find its antithesis. And THAT'S a sure-fire example. :D Which is why all us Lymies are driven crazy trying to figure out how to 'cure' us.
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby Joe Ham » Wed 25 Mar 2009 1:25

The strains of Babesia formerly known as Ca1-5, Wa1-3, and Mo1-? were recently included in the newly named genotype B.duncani. Igenex has separate tests for microti v duncani and I suspect that they do not cross react or why would Igenex off distinctly separate tests? and because I had two negative tests for microti in the past -- courtesy of a local duc and that famous "llmd", Kinderlehrer.

I've heard on other boards (of the distinctly alti flavor) of patients treating Babs for many months with little or no progress. That's why I included the mention that I did not take any supplements or herbals. Maybe they can interfere with the action or metabolism of the abx. Or aggravate side effects which are mistaken for symptoms. Or the interactions are called Herxes. Who knows.

Yes on the vagueness of symptoms. Even in well characterized diseases they are merely grounds for suspicion; then follows confirmation, sometimes by lab testing or, more often in the real world which the doc is reluctant to admit, Dx by Rx. That seems to be justifiable when the cost of the testing is 'out-of-pocket' for the patient and is as costly or more so than the first line drugs which are usually well tolerated. Such can be the case for Babs testing at Igenex -- $475 for each genotype. The co-panel above, #5080 costs $660.
But I wanted lab confirmation anyway -- insurance paid.
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby Fin24 » Wed 25 Mar 2009 2:28

Evan was also treated with Mepron and Zith for Babs sx of day and night sweats and fevers, chills and imbalance

His Microti was neg but no one ever botherd with other testing--he took 8 weeks worth and by week 3 most sx subsided or were gone. about 2 months later his chills retruned with and without sweats and he was put again on same meds for 4 weeks then changed ( I dont recall why) to Malarone instead of the mepron ( maybe for the assumeably boosted effect of the second ingredient??) and another 4 weeks. its been 3 yrs knock wood and NO return of the chills and sweats but the other overlapping sx porbably due more to Bart and Lyme are still here with a vengeance


TESTING--Im of the mind that its more reliable--( than say Lyme) less likely to be false positive or seronegative and smears are very reliable--Babesia are very similar in life cyel to Malaria and are seen as easily inside the RBC's and looks so much alike that
its often mistaken as Malaria and vice versa in Malaria endemic areas

IF there are 2-3 rounds of drug treatments Im unsure of the possibility of it being " chronic"--do we have evidence of chronic Malaria?? even with " resistant" Malaria, once an effective tx is found it can be eradicated.

IMHO and FWIW those who languish with so called Babs sx may in fact have something else if theyve been compliant with dosing and meds scheds its hard when the sx are overlapping to pinpoint just what aint healing. ( even Bart sweats can be mistaken for Babs)
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby Seibertneurolyme » Sun 10 May 2009 4:23

I would have to disagree regarding the Babesia tests not yielding seronegative results. Hubby has never shown any Babesia antibodies on numerous tests -- from IGeneX, MDL, StoneyBrook etc.

Have no idea what strain of babesia hubby had. He had his first positive blood smear for babesia (ring forms) from the old Bowen lab in 2002. Was not treated until late in 2003. Had a bad allergic reaction to Mepron. Could not tolerate psych side effects of Larium. Took low dose quinine/clindamycin in rotation with amoxicillin in 10 day cycles for 4 months. Did 4 months cycles 3 different times over the next 3 years. Significant improvement in seizure-like episodes and tremors/myoclonus each time. But the symptoms never went away and came back worse over time. In 2007 Fry lab also found babesia ring forms one month into the 3rd go round on clindamycin/quinine. Folowed that up with 2 rounds of primaquine and chloroquine. Retested and 2nd Fry slide was clear for Babesia. Both Fry slides showed what is now assumed to be a protozoa.

One indicator for hubby was elevated bilirubin due to destruction of red blood cells -- during treatments his LDH also became elevated and sometimes he would have red blood cells in his urine specimens. His other liver enzymes were always normal.

A trial of Alinia, Bactrim and Artemisinin in 2008 brought a return of sweats and some mild air hunger -- a new symptom. After 8 months on Alinia (4 months at 500 mg daily and 4 months at 1000 mg daily) and Bactrim at 1000 mg daily we are pretty sure the Babesia is actually gone. Only took the Art for about a month (3 days per week).

But now hubby is treating the mystery protozoa. Milder sweats with this bug. Sleep disturbances again. But his tremors and seizure-like spells are almost completely gone -- the best they have been in 7 years since he first got sick. The lysine and lactoferrin and cryptolepis (African herb) seemed to work miracles but the herb became unavailable and symptoms started returning. Red blood counts have fallen into low range again.

It almost seems like now that the Babesia is gone (Clongen lab blood smear did not find Babesia after Alinia and Bactrim treatment but did confirm a protozoa -- presumably the same one Fry is seeing) that the other protozoa is becoming more aggressive.

Bea Seibert
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby Fin24 » Mon 11 May 2009 0:47

Sorry Bea what I meant is that its unlikely to be "neg" IF you use the smears and the other tests combined ( CMPs for liver function and RBC status, Pcrs and antibody tests as well) --You even said the smears showed ring forms--which validates my saying they can be seen and recognized

that means your hubs wasnt totally " seronegative"--thats a negative reaction on ANY blood tests and he DID show positive on a smear

you also mention hubs treated for the "new" protozoa--HOW do they know its not just still Babs??

and funny it seems as if this New one isnt attacked by the same things-drugs/herbs getting the Babs since the claim is that theyre similar ( even genetically). weird indeed

curious--why isnt that herb available?? ( I use a few herbs myself these days and wish to stay informed)
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby Seibertneurolyme » Mon 11 May 2009 19:50

Fin,

One major difference between the new protozoa and babesia is that the new mystery protozoa is not inside the red blood cells like babesia is -- it is extracellular. It is my understanding the new protozoa is also smaller -- closer in size to theileria species -- around 1 um.

We did not pay extra to have specific tests done by Clongen for babesia, but I am sure there were other patients who did. Clongen looked at enough samples that they would have recognized if what they saw in hubby's blood was the usual babesia species in my opinion.

As for the cryptolepis -- it is imported from Africa. Bear Creek Herbs gets theirs from a friend of a friend or someones relative -- a fairly casual relationship. Woodland Essence I think gets theirs from an herbal importer -- but it takes months to get a shipment from Africa as this herb is not one of the commonly traded herbs. As far as I know these are the only 2 U.S. sources of this herb.

Bea Seibert
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Re: A question about treatment for babesia duncani

Postby Fin24 » Tue 12 May 2009 16:01

thanks, Bea!!

as for herbs have you tried to email Stephen Buhner ( via Planet Thrive or his own email)- he usually has up to date sources that are reliable for herbs--he may know of others

F
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