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Testing Probiotics

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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby Fin24 » Mon 1 Sep 2008 20:57

then there is the threshhold of colonization-- the numbers of cells needed to recolonize or grow to sufficient numbers

that means EVEN IF you see activity you dont know if that is enough for gut colonization

I used to make my own yogurt and it took a LOT less of starter to make it than what I needed to swallow for probiotic recolonization while taking abx!!

unfortunately folks you have to let consumers union do the tests and grow the agar plates and then COUNT cells and report it on their website to see if the brand is reliable and as for if it gets to you still living??

a crapshoot

like our food system--do we know HOW long that ham sat outside waiting to get off the truck pallet and back into the fridge...or how long it sat on the slicer?? ( busy deli depts are worse than moderate ones --too much sits on slicers all day too busy to return to fridges)

takes your chances...and the encapsulated types like pearls seem to hold up better in many conditions too

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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby LymeEnigma » Mon 1 Sep 2008 21:04

I didn't get around to it ... but I was going to inquire as to whether or not certain probiotics might not culture in milk in the same way as lactobacilli (I take my acidophilus in yogurt and bifidobacteria in pill form), and if one performed the experiment in the refrigerator.

I guess it doesn't really matter? It was a fun thought, just the same....
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby Daise » Wed 3 Sep 2008 6:48

Hi Fin,

I'm sorry Fin. A lot of what you wrote flew over my head.

It's not perfect--but the best practical way that I know of (I'm still trying to understand your post.) I forgot to add that Pearls never seemed to work, for me. The Country Life that tests good with this method, does. I notice the difference. I better not explain that. :mrgreen:

Testing labs--yes. I wonder if it's been done. It would have to be done from sample bottles taken from a lot of stores, samples from refrigerated sections and off-the-shelf. What Internet sources could be checked?

Still ... that would be a test of individual stores and their care of probiotic products--and or wholesalers probiotic care and their loading docks, etc. It wouldn't be a test of product manufacturing. So, who would be encouraged to test? I'll have to think about that.

As far as Kefir--it's more expensive to drink one cup, then it is to take two capsules of a good probiotic, and one with billions of viable probiotics. And as with what may happened to some probiotic capsules, did the Kefir sit on a loading dock or on the storeroom floor for awhile--killing off probiotcs?

Imagine people questioning managers about probiotics, when someone notices what should be refrigerated, has been sitting out for awhile? Loading docks at wholesalers. If more people question store managers and wholesalers, there'll be aware that customers are aware.

I know of one store with full eastern Sun--big windows! A number of their supplements (of any type) have faded labels, for cryin' out loud. It's quite a sorry sight to look down the aisles! Those bottles would get warm. That means warm product. It's a GNC. :bonk: Haven't been back. Don't wanna!

Thought I'd save myself the gas ... from driving all the way to my usual place.

Thank you, Fin. I'm still digesting what you wrote.

daise :)
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby Fin24 » Wed 3 Sep 2008 7:15

Hi Daise

I can short hand it for you to save time my friend

youre wasting your time--you cannot compare apples and oranges--the supps with LACTO bacilli MAY indeed clot milk but those with more BIFIDO wont --they cant they dont digest milk

and youre working at room temperature which can handicap some lacto bacilli

and you cant tell even IF it clots that the activity is enough to make more inside your tummy
often the NON clotting ones are more "viable" meaning better able to make more inside you

unless you plate and grow them and after a set period of growth COUNT the reproducing ones--you cannot tell anything except which may be better able at making you home made yogurt

sorry dear but its like a lot of things--a crap shoot-- if you take it, and it seems to help continue...otherwise change brands and try to stick with encapsulated like pearls by any company--they seem to be best to hold up longest

as for the expense of Kefir-- a small price to pay for ME. 50-75 cents a day... I know some still smoking--wonder what THAT costs!!! ;)
last I bought them enzymatic therapy pearls cost me about $28 for 90 and at 2 per day thats 62 cents a day compared to my kefir at 50-75 cents

I think thats pretty comparable, but Id pay more for the other nutrients I get too for the calcium alone--but again thats my own opinion
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby cave76 » Wed 3 Sep 2008 15:04

Thanks to both Daise and Fin----- good points in both of them (because it made me think!)

I'm lazy and probably will just stick with the 'easiest' (pill form), try to 'believe' the manufacturers claims and cross my fingers.

I miss my old Whole Foods in CA----- at least there MIGHT have been a chance that they made it from the loading dock to their 'fridge' in time. (But what about the central warehouse or truck? Sigh.)

Good point about the lacto- vs bifidus. Never thought of that.
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby hiker53 » Thu 4 Sep 2008 1:53

So, what is a good probiotic that I can take when I travel and do not have a refrigerator? Hiker53
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby Daise » Thu 4 Sep 2008 7:24

Hi Fin,

You wrote:
youre wasting your time--you cannot compare apples and oranges--the supps with LACTO bacilli MAY indeed clot milk but those with more BIFIDO wont --they cant they dont digest milk

and youre working at room temperature which can handicap some lacto bacilli


I'm under the impresson that we need predominatly acidophilus, and certainly multiple strains of those and other probiotics, such as bifido.

Not having a science background, yet trying to get what you say (thank you for making it more clear for my Lyme brain!) after the testing, my horse sense derives from thinking that those samples that were custard-like showed activity.

OK. By what you said above, the acidophilus (lactobacillus acidophilus) may indeed clot milk. Yes. Room temperature may handicap some acidophilus. How come? What would "handicap" them? Being a "rough" testing process, to be sure, wouldn't it be best to go with the acidophilus that was custard-like rather than chance using the product that may have been "handicapped" by the room temperature?

You mentioned that those with more bifido won't. If I remember right, the Renew Life (they make several probiotics products) had acidophilus and bifido, though I don't know in what percentages.

I just made a visit to my store across town. I'll have to check the labels for those I'v already tested, to find the percentages of acidophilus to bifido.


and you cant tell even IF it clots that the activity is enough to make more inside your tummy


It's a rough test, but I know of no other way. Other than to hire a lab to check each bottle I buy. It's mostly about what can happen enroute and in the store, from the point of vew of the consumer.

For example, I had tested two big bottles of Country Life ACIDOPHILUS (Lactobicillus acidophilus,) 250 count, same product, same expioration date, same refrigerted shelf, in the same store. One passed very well and the other failed badly.

often the NON clotting ones are more "viable" meaning better able to make more inside you


How come? :bonk:

unless you plate and grow them and after a set period of growth COUNT the reproducing ones--you cannot tell anything except which may be better able at making you home made yogurt


"Count the reproducing ones." You mean, using research methods, count the ones actually reproducing, vs what you said before about--what substance?--making it custard-like, depending on an added ingredient?

sorry dear but its like a lot of things--a crap shoot-- if you take it, and it seems to help continue...otherwise change brands and try to stick with encapsulated like pearls by any company--they seem to be best to hold up longest


Yes, more horse sense! Good 'ol horse sense (where's a horsey smiley when you need one?)Enzymatic Therapy Pearls were a disaster for me and I used them every day (one or two per day) for a good while--many, many months--before I started Lyme treatment. Yet, the cheap ones that are often on sale--Country Life Acidophilus--as long as the bottle passes my test each time, do work and I can see the difference, compared to others that passed my test.

Of the products I've tried (what's available to me in my neck of the woods) that's the cheapest and the best.

as for the expense of Kefir-- a small price to pay for ME. 50-75 cents a day... I know some still smoking--wonder what THAT costs!!!
last I bought them enzymatic therapy pearls cost me about $28 for 90 and at 2 per day thats 62 cents a day compared to my kefir at 50-75 cents


Ohhhhhhhhhhh! Boy can I save you some moola. Country Life, with 250 count in one bottle, $9.99, taking 4 capsules a day (less now is needed than before) makes it (almost 4 cents apiece) almost 16 cents per day. With one or two capsules from other brands, for variety and bifido. :woohoo:

Thanks for your effort to make all of this more understandable ... and questionable.

Daise :)
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby Daise » Thu 4 Sep 2008 7:34

Fin,

Kefir and calcium. I don't mean to be a booger, but for me, it drives me to distraction when I find added calcium in a food product or especially in supplements. It interferes greatly with prescription thyroid hormone (I was diagnosed with severe hypothyroidism) and with some prescriptions.

There isn't a smiley for disgusted-with-calcium-added. How 'bout this: Arrrrrgggghhhh!

I need calcium supplements, but I'll have to wait until the major antibiotics are a lot less, just to be able to fit calcium in my schedule.

Daise :)
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby Daise » Thu 4 Sep 2008 7:38

Hi Cavey,

I'm lazy and probably will just stick with the 'easiest' (pill form), try to 'believe' the manufacturers claims and cross my fingers.


:o Oh no, it's alternavista think. :bonk:

Daise :)
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Re: Testing Probiotics

Postby minitails2 » Thu 4 Sep 2008 13:49

I think this a good example of why supplements should be required to be tested by a lab cleared by the FDA. We don't know for sure what's in anything but we have a better chance with some oversight beyond the shareholders.

Very few of us have the background in biology that Fin has and virtually nobody has the equipement needed to correctly do any testing at home. There are no doubt many variables, beyond temperature, medium, and so on, that render home testing useless. Luckily, we have Fin who's had a lot more experience with testing procedures to explain all of this, even if it's hard for us to understand.
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