VERY SAD NEWS!!!

[Martian]

I find it rather funny to hear such nice words from a person who was also a reason for Joe to stop posting his excellent research on this board.

I guess then you also didnt know the HOURS he and I logged on the phone on a reasonably frequent basis??? and that the public banter was simply a continuation of the behind the scenes stuff - I was VERY aware of the friendship you two had ,which is why I shared the news from his sister [and his "old friend" Janet] on this board!

Yes, and thanks very much for that! If you have more information please keep us posted.

When he told me several times that in fact i was NOT the reason for his decline in posting, he thought I could say things differently at times but he "liked my spunk"-- I believed him...just as I believed his sincerity with his paternal advice and good natured jabs--Im sorry that you feel differently! He also told me MANY a time " even if you do get my dander up sometimes,dont ever change Fin" in his usual gravely voice. again Im sorry that you feel differently and that you couldnt have heard him.

and after the years of knowing him Ill guess that NO one ( not even little old annoying me) would have caused him to stop posting--he was declining in health and getting more and more annoyed at life and he also had other conditions I will not reveal due to confidentiality, that affected his emotional stability as well as his reactions and cognitive abilities. Im guessing that had a LOT more to do with his lack of posts in the last few weeks of his life?? as well as his "complaining" ( even about me) and so I will leave you with that.

It's really funny to hear you talk about another person's "emotional stability" and "reactions and cognitive abilities". How often do you look in the mirror? How are your introspective abilities?

I guess we can't verify your accounts, or rather your interpretation of events and conversations.

I haven't noticed ANY serious problems with Joe's emotional stability, reactions and cognitive abilities. Absolutely NONE. And what he told me privately made perfect sense and was consistent with other info.

Regarding "the reason for his decline in posting", Joe actually contributed a lot the last months, but he stopped posting abruptly. He has explained to me why he did so, and it made perfect sense.

He still visited LNE though, he probably did that pretty much every day.

[minitails2]

How sad indeed for the loss of Joe. He was all the many wonderful things that people have said so well. Joe was also very human and in his humanity resided the most interesting and contradictory parts of him.

How sad indeed that a thread meant to celebrate and inform has turned into a thread where accusations have been made. Joe had many private friendships. Only one person really knew all of Joe's health issues, he didn't choose to discuss them with others as was his right. As that person can no longer post on this website, someone else has taken on that responsibility.

Remembering Joe is our joy.

[Meg]

The Lyme Community lost a defender, friend, advocate, and great wit when Joe died.
My sympathies go out to his family and loved ones, as well as to all of us.
You will be missed Joe

[Fin24]

thank you mini
I will, in honor of Joe's " cut the B.S." style, state that I am that " someone else" and that Cave aka Janet is that "someone" who cant post, having been 'banned for life' from here.

And I will also say that since I ,and especially Janet , did know of his serious health conditions perhaps that speaks for itself about the "closeness" of friendship and depth of knowledge about various complications.

Respectfully, Martian, we can ask the same questions about verifying your conversations and your interpretations. In the end Joe, Janet [and to a lesser extent, I] have all the verifications we need.

Perhaps like all friendships, he chose to share with you variations or even different opinions than he chose to share with others. And so we all have different levels of information based upon what he told to each of us? and based upon medical tests and Physician's diagnoses he shared with some of us and actually showed to some as well?

Its hard when we lose a friend to accept that perhaps we did not know all we thought about someone, or that others may know more [or less] and even different things about our departed comrades.

I am saddened that you chose to besmirch my willingness to share news that obviously you did not know, and by association Joe's memory, in this way.

I hope this posted reply doesnt mean that now, I too, will be "banned for life".

[Martian]

Fin24, it is not clear to me what point are you trying to make, if any.

[Yvonne]

I am so sorry to hear this. I always enjoyed his posts and sense of humor. I did like Joe very much.

My condolances to his family and friends.

Yvonne

[itsy]

I am so saddened.

When I lost my job last summer and said I would have trouble posting going forward...Joe sent me lovely PM's trying to help me stay on and saying how much he would miss me. He definately made me smile.

And Martain,

I think Fin is trying to say something without coming out and saying it...which she cannot say. And its rough to try to defend oneself without talking about someone else's personal problems in this case. She cannot comment on what she knows or how she knows it. While I have not spoken to Joe on the phone myself, all I can say is that she is telling the truth, because I was privvy to certain information as well. But it is personal information and if he didn't discuss it publicly, perhaps you should just take it at face value. Fin was not criticizing Joe, she was mentioning there were other behind the scenes things and that there was more than meets the eye. Honestly, I do think your reply to her was rather harsh and assuming and unfair, which is why I don't post much anymore, personally, when I go to the library. I come in and read now and then but mostly call people on the phone when I have the money to do so. And its not because of Fin, I can tell you that much. Because while we disagree on some things...for example, I like reading Lymemd's blog, she doesn't...it is what it is. Doesn't change that we like eachother as people. I think that gets missed a lot here. Fin is passionate, as is Janet...and even myself, all in different ways.

So was Joe. Bless his heart.

You are assuming that Fin is judging him, she wasn't. Clearly we all have our testy days, our emotional crap...and clearly that includes you as well. To wig out on her while discussing this great loss was not nice, when you do not know the facts, and just the kind of thing you preach for people not to do.

I am not only saddened by his loss, but by your behavior on this thread in regards to it. Perhaps Joe was elluding to someone else's behavior ((not Fin's, hoping you woud get the hint hint)) when he left. If you can simply assume, I guess I can, too. I'm glad I came in here this morning and found out about Joe and Carol, I am sad to come in and find this conversation going this direction.

[Martian]

She cannot comment on what she knows or how she knows it. While I have not spoken to Joe on the phone myself, all I can say is that she is telling the truth, because I was privvy to certain information as well. But it is personal information and if he didn't discuss it publicly, perhaps you should just take it at face value. Fin was not criticizing Joe, she was mentioning there were other behind the scenes things and that there was more than meets the eye.

So, here we have the THIRD person with exclusive inside information about Joe. Inside information that of course overrules or refutes other people's supposed inside information, which should be taken with a grain of salt, because Joe "had other conditions that affected his emotional stability as well as his reactions and cognitive abilities". Of course only Joe's best friends were familiar with this exclusive information.

Honestly, I do think your reply to her was rather harsh and assuming and unfair, which is why I don't post much anymore, personally, when I go to the library. I come in and read now and then but mostly call people on the phone when I have the money to do so. And its not because of Fin, I can tell you that much. Because while we disagree on some things...for example, I like reading Lymemd's blog, she doesn't...it is what it is. Doesn't change that we like eachother as people. I think that gets missed a lot here. Fin is passionate, as is Janet...and even myself, all in different ways.

So, you are not posting here much any more because of "rather harsh and assuming and unfair" posts, while it's not because of Fin?! LOL Well, this says a LOT about you. Talk about a contradictio in terminis..

You are showing that you are just the same kind of self-righteous hypocrite with double standards.

You are assuming that Fin is judging him, she wasn't.

No, I am not assuming that. You are beside the mark, which is not unusual for you.

Clearly we all have our testy days, our emotional crap...and clearly that includes you as well. To wig out on her while discussing this great loss was not nice, when you do not know the facts, and just the kind of thing you preach for people not to do.

Hey, maybe I am "passionate" as well. Oh please, spare me YOUR off the wall preachy nonsense.

Perhaps Joe was elluding to someone else's behavior ((not Fin's, hoping you woud get the hint hint)) when he left. If you can simply assume, I guess I can, too.

You have totally disqualified yourself with this remark, if you hadn't done that already.

Itchy, good luck hanging out with your friends fin and cave!

[hiker53]

Okay, Martian and others---take your arguements to another thread. This thread was to inform people of Joe's death and let people give condolences. Be decent, please! Hiker53