A thread without a title

For everything that is related to Lyme and/or Lymeland, but doesn't fit in the other forums. Speak your mind, connect, ask help, etc.
phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

A thread without a title

Post by phantasm » Thu 25 Sep 2014 5:25

The problem with Dr MacDonald's work is that he and Sapi don't acknowledge bartonella as the real driving pathogen in the "Lyme" complex. They found biofilms and assumed that was why people were not getting well. The real reason(s) that people are not getting well are that the tumors that Bartonella creates in the endothelial cells and elsewhere act as pathogenic comunities too and they are harder to penetrate than biofilms, the other reason is the treatments being used have too big of molecules to get into the bones.

http://www.townsendletter.com/July2009/ed_lyme0709.html
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“The knowledge base about both Bartonella testing and treatment borders on the disastrous. Bartonella is one of the most common infections in the world. Calling it a "coinfection" is nonsense; if anything, Lyme is the "coinfection." It is found in vast numbers of common vectors, including dust mites, fleas, flea feces, pet saliva, and ticks. Amazingly, it can turn off or lower antibodies to Lyme disease, Babesia, Ehrlichia, Anaplasma, and even itself. Bartonella floats in blood and also enters all blood vessel walls without causing a fatal fever, and indeed actually lowers fevers. It is the ultimate stealth infection. It turns off antibodies, fevers, and immune function defense chemicals as it damages organs in 20 to 60 ways.” Dr. Schaller has been a leader in helping to understand Bartonella.

Another thing that Bartonella does is to cause tumor growth. I have not seen the ability of Bartonella to create tumors and it’s importance in treating Lyme disease discussed before. These tumors act as fortresses and sequester the infection making it very difficult to get complete resolution. This article highlights the role of Bartonella induced tumors and how they interfere with successful treatment.

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http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php ... a_henselae

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“Bartonella are the only bacteria able to produce angiogenic tumors in humans, very much like the Agrobacterium species that produce tumors in plants”

​. Angiogenisis is when a tumor creates it’s own blood supply by growing blood vessels. These newly formed blood vessels are a result of a genetically induced growth caused by Bartonella changing human DNA.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21844337

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“Conjugative DNA transfer into human cells by the VirB/VirD4 type IV secretion system of the bacterial pathogen Bartonella henselae.”



http://www.lyme-morgellons.com

duncan
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Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by duncan » Thu 25 Sep 2014 14:17

phantasm: "The problem with Dr. MacDonald's work is that he and Sapi don't acknowledge bartonella as the real driving pathogen in the 'Lyme' complex."

Maybe.

What portion of Lyme cases have bartonella as a coinfection?

phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by phantasm » Fri 26 Sep 2014 0:37

I've read a lot of online posts and the pattern is that everyone has Borrelia, Bartonella and Babesia. Bartonella is the dominant pathogen. They probably have a mix of other infections too but that is the common theme. Klinghardt has said that everyone is also infected with the Fry Labs FL1953. What I find interesting about that one is FL says it produces a huge amount of biofilm while at the same time is almost impossible to detect because it is so small, that doesn't make sense to me.

Regardless I cured myself when I treated all pathogen types at the same time and also utilized peptide bonds and disulfide bonds that damage bacterial protein synthesis. I also used energy medicine and MSM as a delivery system. It worked. My protocol will cure just about anything because if you go by this statement of Klinghardts;

http://www.klinghardtneurobiology.com/c ... llness.htm

"In the last decade the majority of outcome-oriented physicians observed a major shift: we realized that it was neither the lack of vitamins or growth hormone that made our patients ill. We discovered that toxicity and chronic infections were most often at the core of the client’s suffering."

And then you simultaineously attack all pathogen types to affect their synergy and symbiosis as well as rebuild your immune system.....................you get better..........cured.

In order to do this you need to ignore the 500 dalton rule of thumb, Those size molecules don't penetrate bones and Bartonella get's in the bones themselves. You need to find reactive molecules ranging from 100-150 daltons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10839713

phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by phantasm » Fri 26 Sep 2014 2:18

here are a couple interesting links.............

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9259103

"Sternal abscess due to Bartonella (Rochalimaea) henselae in a renal transplant patient"

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ad ... ne.0012666


"Evidence of Transfer by Conjugation of Type IV Secretion System Genes between Bartonella Species and Rhizobium radiobacter in Amoeba"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 131848.htm

"Bartonella infection associated with rheumatoid illnesses in humans"

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/12/e141.full

"Vertebral Osteomyelitis Due to Bartonella henselae in Adults: A Report of 2 Cases"

http://www.ashdin.com/journals/jnp/235640.pdf


"Neurological Manifestations of Bartonellosis in Immunocompetent
Patients: A Composite of Reports from 2005–2012"


What I'm saying here is that Bartonella not only gets on your bones but it has acquired more aggressive pathogenic abilities , note the Plosone study where traits were passed through horizontal gene transfer to/from another Rhizobiales order bacteria,Radiobacter, also known as Agrobacterium.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC179851/


So what I am really saying here is that Genetic engineering is directly responsible for the "Lyme" epidemic.

When they GM Agrobacterium to insert genes into organisms they use some nasty stuff, one thing they use is a gene marker, Chromobacterium Violaceum's Violacien gene that glows and also kills the human immune system cells on contact.

What they have done at Monsanto and Dupont and Bayer is ungodly and now the human race is reaping the result. Ag is released into the environment then through HGT , a natural method for prokaryotic cells, then easily acquired by pathogenic bacteria from the same Rhizobiales order (Bartonella or a Bartonella like organism).

That is the reality, the perfect storm, Global warming, antibiotics in the environment and Genetic engineering.......................The perfect storm.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Horizontal_Tran ... spread.php

"Horizontal Transfer of GM DNA Widespread"

http://farmwars.info/


When you see that this is the real issue then what a bunch of "doctors" who were trained by Big Pharma subsidized colleges have to say becomes pretty much useless because they have about a billion names for symptom sets and never seem to get around to the actual cause...........they can't , it would upset their cash flow. Or they are beholden to Big Pharma because of the money they give the medical colleges where they work and pays their paycheck so they can't really say what they know or the truth otherwise they're out, example Sapi at UNH and Breitschwerdt at NC state. It's kind of a mess...........

See this one , the gene marker is Violacein.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3fCD0uUJk0

Peace friend.

nnecker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by nnecker » Fri 26 Sep 2014 14:23

phantasm,when you say:

"So what I am really saying here is that Genetic engineering is directly responsible for the "Lyme" epidemic."

I disagree.I think Lyme it is an alien experiment to see if it could be the most efficient way to exterminate the human race.
Last edited by nnecker on Fri 26 Sep 2014 14:49, edited 1 time in total.

phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by phantasm » Fri 26 Sep 2014 14:33

nnecker wrote:phantasm,when you say:

"So what I am really saying here is that Genetic engineering is directly responsible for the "Lyme" epidemic."

I disagree.I think Lyme it is an alien experiment to see if it could be most efficient way to exterminate the human race.

Well you can look at the evidence in Microbiology and Genetics and if you take the time to read and understand it then the conclusions are clear. This is not a "conspiracy theory" because it is fact based but you would have to grasp what is already out there and is substantiated instead of just pulling stuff out of the air. Are there any particular points that I've made and their context relative to the Big Picture that you have a science based issue with?

I'm not saying this because it's what I want to believe, In fact it isn't a very desirable scenario at all, I'm saying this because if you look at the evidence in an unbiased way it is the logical conclusion.

Of course you can believe anything you want to for whatever reasons.

nnecker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by nnecker » Fri 26 Sep 2014 14:52

Yes phantasm,I have a grasp of what is already out there.

velvetmagnetta
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun 23 Feb 2014 22:47

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by velvetmagnetta » Fri 26 Sep 2014 15:45

It's not a very efficient way to exterminate the human race. It takes waaay too long to kill you. Now, Ebola, on the other hand...

nnecker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by nnecker » Fri 26 Sep 2014 15:59

Ebola is also an alien experiment.Those aliens are some nasty critters I tell you.Just listen to what Stephen Hawking said "If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans," .We are all doomed.

phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: The role of infections in autoimmune disease

Post by phantasm » Fri 26 Sep 2014 19:52

nnecker wrote:Ebola is also an alien experiment.Those aliens are some nasty critters I tell you.Just listen to what Stephen Hawking said "If aliens visit us, the outcome would be much as when Columbus landed in America, which didn't turn out well for the Native Americans," .We are all doomed.
So you don't really have anything meaningful to add then............. It sounds like you might be a good fit with Scientology.

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