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"all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Thu 17 Sep 2015 14:27
by X-member
Chronic Lyme disease: misconceptions and challenges for patient management
Halperin


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4440423/

A quote:
Consequently, if the data indicate that immunocompetent patients with B. burgdorferi infection of more than a few months duration are virtually always seropositive, and if the definition of “chronic Lyme disease” requires symptoms of more than several months duration to be deemed chronic, all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive.
But are they all really seropositive?

I posted a link from Sweden in the thread below:

live blood microscopy

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =30#p42887

Only 70% of cases with chronic/late European borreliosis test positive with Diasorin Liaison ELISA (used in Sweden).

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Sat 19 Sep 2015 13:28
by duncan
Thanks for posting, X-member. This guy is always an entertaining read.

Did Mr. Halperin not get the memo about the new estimate for Lyme disease cases in the US? That it is no longer 30,000, but 300,000??

But he DID apparently read about the IOM report contracted by the NIH regarding ME/CFS; he knows about the SEID recommendation. You would think, then, he could advise the new Lyme Guidelines people about what the IOM has to say about Lyme, assuming he read that, too.

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Mon 21 Sep 2015 15:22
by X-member
The outer surface proteins of Lyme disease borrelia spirochetes stimulate T cells to secrete interferon-gamma (IFN-γ): diagnostic and pathogenic implications

P. FORSBERG1,*, J. ERNERUDH2,3, C. EKERFELT2, M. ROBERG1, M. VRETHEM2 and S. BERGSTRÖM4
Article first published online: 28 JUN 2008


http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract

A quote:
Late stages of borrelia Lyme disease infections may be difficult to diagnose because of unspecific symptoms and unreliable laboratory tests, being too unspecific or insensitive.

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 13:21
by X-member
USDOJ Protest for All Abused Groups (Autism,GWI,CFIDS,Lyme,Parents,Psych..)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/OccupyUSDOJ/

From the facebook group above:
Trying to figure out WHY some people test positive for antibodies and some don't.
Two replies:
Some are born with the correct genetic HLA's, some don't have them. Also, when the B cells stop working or they are badly cloned, antibody production is shut off or severely diminished.
Also, since the CDC uses Steeres strain that drops OspA and B, which are diagnostic, most won't test POS via CDC WB test
Edit to add.

One more reply:
So...let me see if this analogy works. They figured out the mechansim (OspA) to turn off our Firewalls (TLR-2/1) and then they inject us with viruses to keep us perpetually sick.

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 13:38
by X-member
The post above is associated with the topic/thread below:

"Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =11&t=5983

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 13:51
by X-member
From an earlier post in this thread:
Some are born with the correct genetic HLA's,....
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 926#p43238

From an another thread:
ACA is not post sepsis, no that is in the HLA-linjekd arthritis class...
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =30#p43232

From the first post in this thread (this is cases with ACA):
Only 70% of cases with chronic/late European borreliosis test positive with Diasorin Liaison ELISA (used in Sweden).
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =11&t=5926

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 19:14
by hv808ct
by duncan » Sat 19 Sep 2015 13:28

Did Mr. Halperin not get the memo about the new estimate for Lyme disease cases in the US? That it is no longer 30,000, but 300,000??
30K is what is reported to CDC annually.

“Using medical claims data, we estimated that 329,000 (95% credible interval 296,000–376,000) LD cases occur annually in the United States, which emphasizes the substantial public health effect of this disease. This estimate is consistent with findings from a recent study of diagnostic laboratories that yielded an estimate of 288,000 (range 240,000–444,000) infections among patients for whom a laboratory specimen was submitted in 2008.”
Nelson, et al. 2015

Note the words “estimate” and “estimated”.

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 20:40
by duncan
Yeah, which is why I said "estimate" as well.

The 300,000 is the better estimate, yes? Which would explain why the number was announced, and the explanation behind its voracity which accompanied its announcement? So would clinging to the 30,000 figure (also an estimate), without at least an asterisk, teeter on being disingenuous?

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 21:57
by Camp Other
duncan wrote:Yeah, which is why I said "estimate" as well.

The 300,000 is the better estimate, yes? Which would explain why the number was announced, and the explanation behind its voracity which accompanied its announcement? So would clinging to the 30,000 figure (also an estimate), without at least an asterisk, teeter on being disingenuous?
I think the 300,000 is a better estimate, between lab results and those cases where patients are diagnosed based on an EM rash and history but are never given a blood test.

Re: "all patients with “chronic Lyme disease” should be seropositive"

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 22:07
by duncan
Agreed, Camp Other. For Lyme insiders, this is fairly evident.

It could be argued it is even more important for someone with Halperin's stature and visibility, to publicly embrace the more representative estimate.

btw, good to see you posting. :)