"Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

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X-member
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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by X-member » Sat 31 Oct 2015 23:22

I wrote earlier:
So, now people in Norway think (or claim) that on the first day in the 7:th month they get "post-sepsis syndrome", reactivated Herpesvirus and "HIV-negative AIDS".
I give you one example.

A Norwegian "supporter" (to this US woman) writes on facebook:
CDC offiserer fikk LYMErix vaksinen til å fremstå som 85 % effektiv. Den viste seg å være effektiv for å forårsake den samme multisystemiske sykdommen som kronisk nevrologisk Lyme.
Translation with google translate (and partly by me):
CDC officers got LYMErix vaccine to appear as 85% efficient. It proved to be effective to cause the same multi-systemic disease as late Lyme neuroborreliosis.
Kronisk nevrologisk Lyme = late (Lyme) neuroborreliosis (an active borrelia infection that also have been detected in the CNS for more that 6 months).
Last edited by X-member on Mon 2 Nov 2015 16:11, edited 1 time in total.

duncan
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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by duncan » Sun 1 Nov 2015 0:09

I'm sorry X-member, it's hard to judge what this person was saying without reading her entire post - and I don't have facebook.

Post-sepsis seems to be her interpretation of ME/CFS. She references the Rituximab trials in Norway, and the 2/3 efficacy results it achieved thu B-cell depletion.

One observation might be that for anyone misdiagnosed with ME/CFS that has Lyme that went through this treatment, I'm not sure what the impact would be.

Is she right about Lyme triggering post-sepsis? Perhaps sometimes. Is she right in saying chronic Lyme is post-sepsis? Before I criticize her I'd want to review what she had to say.

Perhaps other LNE members who read her theory could comment?

I DO think it interesting about her claim about Dattwyler associating NK Cell function in chronic Lyme. NK Cell Function levels are one of only two generally acknowledged metrics for diagnosing ME/CFS...My NK Cell levels are out of range low, for instance, common in ME/CFS patients.

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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by X-member » Sun 1 Nov 2015 0:52

Since this US woman blocked me on facebook, I can no longer read what she writes on facebook, but I can read what her Norwegian "supporter" writes.

Some quotes from the text on a picture posted by this person from Norway:
Live in a moldy home or grew up in one? - ME/CFS, FM same as post sepsis syndrome
Were you in a TB or Lyme vaccine trial? - Same as post-sepsis syndrome
Bitten by a tick and were so sick you thought you gonna die? - CLD same as post-sepsis syndrome
Post-sepsis syndrome dosn't mean "post" anything, you still got all that shit.
So, she (and her "supporter" from Norway) must think that Rituximab can be used to treat active infections, like late Lyme disease and reactivated Herpesviruses and so on.


And I don't agree with her (and her Norwegian "supporter") when they claim that "chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome". Late Lyme disease or late (Lyme) neuroborreliosis is (in my eyes) not the same thing as "post-sepsis syndrome".

duncan
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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by duncan » Sun 1 Nov 2015 1:10

Well, if that is right, to me that suggests a basic misunderstanding of the Rituximab trials. Drs. Fluge and Mella were treating cancer patients, some of whom had ME/CFS as well. They treated these cancer patients with an autoimmune drug named Rituximab, and to everyone's surprise, the ME/CFS patients improved.

There is now a second trial dedicated to seeing how effective Rituximab is in helping ME/CFS patients in a sustained fashion.

But my limited interpretation of Rituximab suggests it is used in cases other than those involving active infections, where modifying the immune response is desired - as in turning off the B-cell component and then rebooting. Situations that involve cancer or immune dysfunction or autoimmune disorders.

I don't know how this would work with an active infection like Lyme.

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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by X-member » Sun 1 Nov 2015 1:18

Duncan wrote:
I don't know how this would work with an active infection like Lyme.
What do you think will happen if a treatment that kill B-cells is given to a person with active infections?

duncan
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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by duncan » Sun 1 Nov 2015 1:31

Sorry, I don't know.

I would worry it would leave the patient more vulnerable to that infection, but I really don't know.

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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by X-member » Sun 1 Nov 2015 1:38

I try to translate what a physician from Denmark (Dr Marie Kroun) say about this on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/daninfekt
If no active infection it can be defended to try to dampen immune responses (anti-B-cell, anti-TNF etc.), but it can have disastrous consequences if you do it in a patient with currently active infection...
In Danish:
Er der ikke aktiv infektion, kan man forsvare at forsøge at dæmpe immunreaktioner (Anti-B-celle, anti-TNF etc.), men det kan få katastrofale følger, hvis man gør det hos en patient med aktuelt aktiv infektion...

duncan
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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by duncan » Sun 1 Nov 2015 1:48

So maybe there is some justification to be concerned with a Rituximab strategy when dealing with a chronic and active infection - especially one that can seek refuge in so many different areas?

It seems to make sense - if you in any way ratchet down the body's immune system, wouldn't that encourage an environment where an active infection could possibly flourish?

Remember, I believe the theory here - in the Rituximab study - is that a subset of ME/CFS patients suffer from a perpetually activated immune system - like it were in constant overdrive - in the absence of an actual infection. The idea is to modify that immune system so it is no longer chronically activated. If there IS an actual infection, wouldn't that premise be undone?

I think it might. Maybe. ;)

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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by X-member » Sun 1 Nov 2015 2:21

Duncan wrote:
If there IS an actual infection, wouldn't that premise be undone?

I think it might. Maybe. ;)
I like people that use their brain! 8-)

Yes, it might actually be so.

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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Post by X-member » Sun 1 Nov 2015 5:47

Perhaps someone is interested in some more info about this from the Norwegian "supporter"?
.....We need to stop talking about the fabricated IDSA v. ILADS battle that continues to be nothing but a distraction, and focus on what the disease is. It's not about "persisters" that must be killed continuously with antibiotics. We know that Lyme is a permanent brain infection. It's not about biofilms. We know that spirochetes do not cluster in vivo. It's about the immunosuppression that even the crooks themselves are admitting now. It's about the reactivated herpesviruses that lead to cancer and the "Great Imitators." It's in the AIDS and cancer class; not in the autoimmune and allergy class. This is one of the very fundamental things to know. This is why the testing doesn't work. Most people do not produce enough antibodies to test positive. THIS WAS DONE WITH INTENT BY THE LYME CROOKS TO PASS OFF A FAKE VACCINE. If people couldn't test positive, the vaccine was a success!...
So, they definitely talk about active infections.

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