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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 1:42
by X-member
Duncan, you wrote:
Can Lyme result is sepsis? I guess. I don't see why not.
Do a search on PubMed on: Borreliosis or Lyme disease + sepsis.

I have done this, and I only find studies that say borreliosis can cause bacteremia but perhaps I have missed something?

A quote (from the link below):
Bacteremia is the presence of viable bacteria in the blood stream. Bacteremia is different from sepsis (so-called blood poisoning or toxemia)...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteremia

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 1:50
by duncan
Good point.

I also searched syphilis and sepsis - it doesn't appear syphilis can cause sepsis, although I really only gave it a very cursory look.

I figured most any bacteria or virus or parasite could result in sepsis under the right conditions (weakened immune system, for instance), but maybe not.

Sepsis is an immune response, as opposed to the bacterial infection itself? But aren't our symptoms merely the product of our immune responses? Is sepsis the immune response POST-infection? To have sepsis, must the original insult be eradicated?

I don't know squat about sepsis, and it's showing.

Is this just semantics? Could chronic Lyme be sepsis caused by Lyme? If so, then wouldn't that also hold true for late stage syphilis?

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 1:58
by X-member
I also gave the US woman this (before she blocked me on facebook):
Acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans (ACA)
Is an unusual progressive fibrosing skin lesion which is probably the most common manifestation of chronic Lyme borreliosis in Europe. It usually occurs in the lower limbs of elderly people, starting with a bluish discolouration of the skin, followed by gradual epidermal atrophy, the skin developing a thin shiny, papery appearance. The condition is due to the effect of continuing active infection. Live spirochaetes have been isolated from skin biopsy specimens of patients with ACA as long as ten years after initial infection.
http://www.eucalb.com/

Can this really be called "post-sepsis syndrome"?

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 2:01
by duncan
No! I think your response was perfect. How does she explain away ACA? Does the septic state occur later than ACA, which itself occurs late stage?

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 2:05
by X-member
I think you understand my point, Duncan.

Chronic Lyme borreliosis stands for late Lyme disease, no matter if it include "post-sepsis syndrome" or not.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 2:10
by duncan
I think we agree.

I still want to try to make it through that website one of these days.

She should have responded to your ACA question - I'd be curious how she would have answered.

I want to believe she thinks ACA would be late stage, but maybe she thinks chronic Lyme is POST Lyme - but she doesn't say that. She seems to say even with sepsis Bb remains.

But, that shouldn't work with Rituximab in the picture.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 17:40
by X-member
Perhaps this belong in this thread too?

IT'S CHRONIC FATIGUE, NOT LYME, INFECTIOUS DISEASE DOC TELLS SENATORS (2014)
DR. DANIEL CAMERON

http://danielcameronmd.com/canada-senate-lyme/

A quote:
“The data that Lyme advocates put forward has no proven clinical relevance", he told CBC Radio.
Edit to add:

Give all those people Rituximab, and see what happens!?

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 18:01
by X-member
An explanation of "sepsis" from the US woman:
“Endotoxin tolerance [Lyme, LYMErix-Disease, CFIDS, etc] protects the host by limiting excessive 'cytokine storm' during sepsis, but compromises the ability to counteract infections in septic shock survivors."- Medvedev, Oct 13, 2015....
http://www.actionlyme.org/

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 18:52
by X-member
Duncan wrote:
I want to believe she thinks ACA would be late stage, but maybe she thinks chronic Lyme is POST Lyme - but she doesn't say that
Yes, I think she call "post-Lyme" chronic Lyme.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Mon 2 Nov 2015 19:34
by X-member
I have now got an answer (on Facebook) from the Norwegian "supporter":
ACA is not post sepsis, no that is in the HLA-linjekd arthritis class See http://www.actionlyme.org/USDOJ_COMPLAINT_RICO.htm See what is with arthritis

Look at the Western Blots.
Even rarer than arthritis, so we don't bother with it other than to explain what HLA linked and non-HLA linked means.

http://www.actionlyme.org/USDOJ_COMPLAINT_RICO.htm
So, the "chronic Lyme" that she/they talk about do not include (if I understand it correct) arthritis and ACA.

This US woman must have "invented" a new variant of "chronic Lyme" that I have never heard of before.