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Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 22:17
by X-member
From an earlier post (Swedish information about "post-Lyme"):
....without objective signs of infection... ... =40#p43241

Signs of infection means that the patient have signs of an active infection.

More information about this in the thread below:

Signs of a still active, ongoing borrelia infection? ... =11&t=5226

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 22:26
by duncan
Depends on which signs, as well as who is interpreting those signs...

But there are frequently objective signs of infection in PTLDS.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Wed 4 Nov 2015 23:52
by X-member
One more translated quote from the Swedish link:
The question is not, however, finally solved. Long-term treatment may be considered in some cases where the initial treatment has not yielded sufficient results ... 101-28.pdf

And that is not what the US woman (and her "supporters") say/recommend, if I understand it correct.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Thu 5 Nov 2015 0:34
by X-member
The Norwegian "supporter" also told me this the other day (when I tried to tell him that chronic Lyme borreliosis stands for late Lyme disease in Norway):

Translation with google translate (and partly by me):
We are trying our best to tell you that we have evidence that the disease ILADS treat is not about spirochetes.
Edit to add:

But they do not (if I understood it correct) include ACA and arthritis in the "evidence" that they have.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Thu 5 Nov 2015 0:58
by duncan
Do they maintain ME/CFS = chronic Lyme = post-sepsis?

If so, then I think they may be mixing too many different things together to force feed their theory through that narrow needle.

First, they should clarify whether Bb is still in the host. If they believe it is - and to me it sounds like they think it is - then they need to explain the Rituximab trials, the discordance between Lyme incidence (even if just proof of exposure) and ME incidence, the lack of arthritis in ME/CFS, the confusion between immunosuppression and hyper immune activation, the polarized recommendations on exercise, PEM vs exercise intolerance vs deconditioning, late stage manifestation like ACA or arthritis in a post-sepsis condition...

The list runs on.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Thu 5 Nov 2015 1:33
by X-member
More from this US woman:
If even the CDC-IDSA Lyme crooks admit that LYMErix vaccination (OspA = LYMErix = Pam3Cys = fungal toxin = TLR2/1 agonist) caused the same immunosuppression-initiated systemic, neurologic disease we know of as Chronic Neurologic Lyme (or Post Septic Shock Syndrome), and the NIH and other experts (not ILADS or IDSA) repeatedly state this outcome is very probably associated with the reactivation of latent viruses such as EBV, CMV, HHV-6, Varicella, Simplex, and creates an environment for other known "common opportunistics" (Fauci) like Candida and other fungi, etc., - and the New Great Imitators of MS, Lupus, CFIDS and Fibromyalgia are also caused by the same -, then that explains why ILADS can't cure anyone with their various, ever-changing, kaleidoscope of theories for why antibiotic and other crazy treatments fail.

Chronic Neurologic Lyme?

Chronic (Lyme) neuroborreliosis = stage 3 in Norway and Sweden. (IDSA call this: Late neurologic Lyme disease)

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Thu 5 Nov 2015 2:04
by duncan
Why does OspA = fungal toxin? Why fungal?

I think I understand the blebs and being carried into the brain etc, but why fungal?

Btw, the problem with ME/CFS is not necessarily that EBV, HHV-6, Coxsackie A&B etc., reactivating - although with some they do. The problem is that our immune system looks like it is in an all out war with each, without quite crossing that line that says they are active infections. Labs will show consistently elevated titers - out of range or high - for each.

There are prominent researchers that point to any one of those disease as the underlying culprit behind an autoimmune or immune disorder.( Although some suggest - like with EBV, or HHV-6 or enteroviruses - that there is an active, subclinical disease behind ME/CFS. Lyme could be one of those possible culprits).

But the most popular explanation is that ME/CFS is an autoimmune disorder caused by anyone of the above diseases, as well as several other diseases.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Thu 5 Nov 2015 18:23
by X-member
I think this belong in this thread too.

Vaccines against Lyme Disease: What Happened and What Lessons Can We Learn? ... /s253.full

Two quotes:
The primary issues that led to the vaccine’s withdrawal appear to be a combination of vaccine safety concerns, sparked by a molecular mimicry hypothesis that suggested that the vaccine antigen, outer surface protein A, serves as an autoantigen and hence was arthritogenic; concerns raised by anti-vaccine groups regarding vaccine safety; vaccine cost; a difficult vaccination schedule and the potential need for boosters; class action lawsuits; uncertainty regarding risk of disease; and low public demand.
In addition, the vaccine adverse events reporting system (VAERS) database was used in a retrospective study that examined the time period from the time of vaccine licensure through 31 July 2000 [17]. By then, 1.4 million doses of the vaccine had been distributed and 905 reports of adverse events had occurred.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Sat 7 Nov 2015 19:40
by X-member
I wrote earlier in this thread that I tried to explain to the Norwegian "supporter" that chronic Lyme borreliosis stands for late Lyme disease/stage 3 (no matter if it is a neuroborreliosis or not) in Norway. But he said something about a "falsification".

I think I have found what he talked about:
These criminals, particularly the CDC officers Barbour and Johnson, falsified the test. It now only detects late Lyme arthritis.

But this is absolutely not correct in Norway, because the tests used in Norway (and in Sweden) also detects both ACA and neuroborreliosis.

Actually most (about 75%) of the reported cases with stage 2 and stage 3 in Norway are diagnosed with neuroborreliosis.

Re: "Chronic Lyme is post-sepsis syndrome" ?

Posted: Sun 8 Nov 2015 17:04
by X-member
More information from the Norwegian "supporter":
De endret testing så de ville oppdage bare late Lyme artritt. Det betyr at de IKKE diagnostiser nevrologiske Lyme ofre, som utgjør 85% av alle tilfeller og som har en AIDS - lignende sykdom.

Translation with google translate (and partly by me):
They changed the testing so they only detect late Lyme arthritis. That means they DO NOT diagnose neurological Lyme victims, who are 85% of all the cases who have an AIDS - like illness.
Some information about how many it is that still have symptoms after treatment for neuroborreliosis (that actually is diagnosed in both Norway and Sweden) can be found in the thread below:

European LNB - Long-term follow-up (Norway) ... f=7&t=3980

A quote:
...10-50% report fatigue, cognitive problems such as memory, attention and mental speed, or musculoskeletal ailments even years after treatment.