Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by X-member » Tue 17 Jan 2012 14:54

Henry:
Carina: I remind you that this discussion is about biofilms. Stick to the point.
Yes, you should do that! ;)

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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by Camp Other » Tue 17 Jan 2012 21:54

Henry said,
"Carina: I remind you that this discussion is about biofilms. Stick to the point.

A much more enlightening discussion of the topic may be found at : Biofilms: The New Lyme-toxin Myth. It illustrates quite well the adverse consequences of accepting unproven concepts based on poor studies on the "wallets" and health of patients. All should question the rationale of the unorthodox therapies being proposed by LLMDs before they allow them to touch their bodies or put "junk" into them. The worse remedy that I heard to "bust biofilms" is some extract derived from worms. In the absence of credible clinical data, only a fool would believe in the merits of such an approach. In short, there is no unequivocal evidence that Borrelia even form biofilms; yet, some believe that they are responsible for the failure of antibiotic therapy and other are now suggesting new and bizarre remedies to get rid of the biofilms -- that don't even exist. What folly!!!"
Carina said,
"Henry:
"Carina: I remind you that this discussion is about biofilms. Stick to the point."

Yes, you should do that!"
I agree with Carina that this thread is going off-topic. While I can see the importance of discussing treatments which are based on scant research or no research at all, that topic can be discussed in that thread and isn't applicable here.

I am still wanting to know more about the S-layer and what is known about it. And in terms of Borrelia biofilms, how one would design studies to discover more about them in vivo.

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inmacdonald
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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by inmacdonald » Sun 5 Feb 2012 18:16

Borrelia burgdorferi Aggregates associated with Extracellular Matrix equals a Biofilm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed

These data meet the Academic definition of a biofilm unit (Colonial unit with extracellular matrix in a living mirco-organism)

What is your analysis?

Respectfully,

Alan B. MacDonald MD
Attachments
srivastavva and silva fig 1 a b c.jpg
Scanning Electron microscopy of Extracellular Matrix material holding Borrelia burgdorferi aggregates together - tick model
srivastavva and silva fig 1 a b c.jpg (88.88 KiB) Viewed 2416 times

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inmacdonald
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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by inmacdonald » Sun 5 Feb 2012 23:27

Borrelia Surface layer, "surface Layer", ( S Layer), ("slime layer")- Images from Electron microscopy images as proof:
Attachments
hovind EM.jpg
Blebs of Borrelia burgdorferi - budding from outer surface membrane ( Slime layer (S Layer)
hovind EM.jpg (246.57 KiB) Viewed 2379 times
Borrelia blebs vesicles) from S layer ( slime layer).jpg
Borrelia Blebs (Vesicles) from outer surface membrane of Borrelia
Borrelia blebs vesicles) from S layer ( slime layer).jpg (56.69 KiB) Viewed 2379 times
hovind 2  Borrelia surface layer (slime layer-S layer).jpg
Borrelia Surface Layer - "Slime Layer" - Outer surface membrane Blebs
hovind 2 Borrelia surface layer (slime layer-S layer).jpg (241.69 KiB) Viewed 2382 times

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inmacdonald
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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by inmacdonald » Mon 6 Feb 2012 2:53

Schematic Diagram of the origin of Membrane Vesicles ( Blebs) from the Slime layer
( S Layer) - Outer surface membrane - of Borrelia

The Membrane Vesicles make a substantial contribution to the Extracellular Matrix
of Biofilms.
Glycoproteins constitute the principal component of Membrane Vesicles (Blebs)
and constitute the princoipal component of the "slime layer" (S Layer) of
Borrelia spirochetes.
Attachments
origin of membrane vesicles fro OSM (blebs).jpg
Origin of Membrane Vesicles (blebs) of Borrelia burgdorferi and related Borrelia species.
origin of membrane vesicles fro OSM (blebs).jpg (117.91 KiB) Viewed 2377 times

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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by X-member » Mon 6 Feb 2012 15:05

Thank you, Alan B MacDonald MD, for all this info, and all these very interesting pictures!

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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by Camp Other » Tue 7 Feb 2012 5:20

Dr. MacDonald said,
"Borrelia burgdorferi Aggregates associated with Extracellular Matrix equals a Biofilm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed

These data meet the Academic definition of a biofilm unit (Colonial unit with extracellular matrix in a living mirco-organism)

What is your analysis?"
I think you are asking Henry - not me - for analysis. Would that be correct?

Reading the above link, I came across this in the Discussion section:

"Further studies are needed to explore the role of Borrelia aggregates in persistence both during normal infection and after antibiotic treatment. Here we demonstrate that high temperature, low pH, and high cell density enhance Borrelia aggregate formation in vitro."

This is in vitro. What does Borrelia do in vivo? How often does it aggregate in vivo, when in persistance studies (animal post mortem) what I've seen is a low density of spirochetes in tissue and not aggregates?

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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by Henry » Tue 7 Feb 2012 15:05

The paper states: "In ticks, aggregates were observed during and after the blood meal when the spirochetes grow to high densities in the tick's gut." First of all, these aggregates are found in ticks -- in ticks that have taken a blood meal. It is a well known fact that Borrelia have receptors that bind to fibrin and fibrinectin. What is shown may be nothing more than Borrelia aggregating around denatured fibrin strands. It's a laboratory artifact of no clinical significance. I repeat: a classical biofilm is created by the excretion of a bacterial product (polysaccharide in many cases) that results in the formation of a "slime layer" that is not free-standing, but attached to some surface. Finding aggregates does not define a biofilm.

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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by Henry » Tue 7 Feb 2012 17:35

The ultimate value of such "aggregates" in ticks, even if they can be misconstrued as being "biofilms", is questionable. The well-known and appreciated effectiveness of OspA vaccines as transmission blocking vaccines indicates that such aggregates certainly are not impermeable to the neutralizing effects of antibody vs OspA; such antibody kills Borrelia in the midgut of infected ticks as well as prevents the migration of Borrelia from the midgut to salivary glands. Also, there is the recent report that Borrelia burgdorferi and Anaplasma phagocyophilium can be eliminated in rodent reservoirs and Ixodes scapularis ticks using doxycycline hyclate-laden bait (Am. J. Trop. Med. Hyg. 85: 1114-1120, 2011). So much for the effectiveness of such "biofilms" in ticks.

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Re: Structure of Biofilms of Borrelia Lecture link

Post by inmacdonald » Tue 7 Feb 2012 18:37

Biofilm definition ( peer reviewed) data points:
1. Colonies of the micro-organism
2. Extracellular matrix produced by the micro-organism ( not fibrin) which surrounds
the colonial aggregates.

Scanning Electron microscopy of Extracellular Matrix material holding Borrelia burgdorferi aggregates together - tick srivasta and de silva fig a b c.jpg (88.88 KiB) Viewed 98 times
inmacdonald Posts: 51Joined: Fri 13 Jan 2012 22:32

[Please note that there is no fibrin detected by ultrastructure study in these images][[Please note that this is an IN VIVO study ..of living ticks---this is not an artefact of Laboratoryi n vitro cultivation]]

[[[Please note that a Scholar Google search of Biofilms and structure will result in many citations
from reputable investigators in peer reviewed journals of the highest caliber
which report IN VITRO studies of biofilm structure]]]
Attachments
Tick study borrelia colony invested in an extracellular matrix.jpg
Extracellular matrix material produced by the borrelia demonstrated by Scanning electron microscopy from Fig 2. Srivastata and de Silva
Tick study borrelia colony invested in an extracellular matrix.jpg (11 KiB) Viewed 2312 times
srivastavva and silva fig 1 complete.jpg
srivastata and de Silva Figure 2 from post above brightfield and darkfield images compared
srivastavva and silva fig 1 complete.jpg (10.32 KiB) Viewed 2312 times

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