Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockenstedt

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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inmacdonald
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Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockenstedt

Post by inmacdonald » Wed 17 Oct 2012 18:58

Dr Linda Bockenstedt in her article on Murine laboratory induced Lyme chronic arthritis
using GFP labeled Borrelia burgodrferi
discusses Biofilms of borrelia burgdorferi in her Discussion section
JCI Year 2102 (7);122: pp 2652-2660

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Highlighted Biofilms comments by Dr Linda Bockenstedt reduced JPG.jpg
Discussion
Highlighted Biofilms comments by Dr Linda Bockenstedt reduced JPG.jpg (189.21 KiB) Viewed 1906 times
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Figure 5 A Spectral Analysis.jpg
Figure 5 A
Figure 5 A Spectral Analysis.jpg (111.53 KiB) Viewed 1906 times
___________________________________________________

Biofilms of Borrelia burgdorferi are a topic
worthy of discussion by Dr.Linda Bockenstedt.

Respectfully,
AlanB.MacDonald,MD
Oct 17,2012

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Spanky
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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by Spanky » Thu 18 Oct 2012 15:30

"inmacdonald":
Dr Linda Bockenstedt in her article on Murine laboratory induced Lyme chronic arthritis
using GFP labeled Borrelia burgodrferi
discusses Biofilms of borrelia burgdorferi in her Discussion section
JCI Year 2102 (7);122: pp 2652-2660

Okay?

Could you explain for the benefit of myself and others here, please, why you quoted this? What is it that you wish us to see?
If the spirochete DNA detected in mouse tissues after antibiotics represents a sunpopulation of live spirochetes, this population differs in several ways from persisters studied in other bacterial species.
(My emphasis).

I notice, for instance, that the quoted sentence begins with the word "if". That means that whatever follows is based on a conditional premise, right?

But the "then" portion of the "if..."then"...suggests that if those persisters are, indeed, alive...then they are different than any such other persisters...

...and the implication there, seems to be, that we, therefore, shouldn't expect, then, that this is actually the case, correct?

That this isn't a likely scenario.

Do you agree?
Last edited by Spanky on Thu 18 Oct 2012 16:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by X-member » Thu 18 Oct 2012 16:24

I have no problem to understand what Dr MacDonald wishes us to see, Spanky.

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Spanky
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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by Spanky » Thu 18 Oct 2012 16:41

"Carina":
I have no problem to understand what Dr MacDonald wishes us to see, Spanky.
That's nice, Einstein.

But since McDonald made the statement, I wonder if you would allow him to respond?

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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by X-member » Thu 18 Oct 2012 17:07

Ok, I am sorry Spanky.

You asked for help from Dr MacDonald to understand what Dr Bockenstedt has written?

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Spanky
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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by Spanky » Thu 18 Oct 2012 17:11

"Carina":
You asked for help from Dr MacDonald to understand what Dr Bockenstedt have written?
No, Einstein.

I think that I understand what Dr. Bockenstedt wrote.

I am asking McDonald why he wanted us to see that.

It seems to argue against what he is saying, in other words. And I am asking if he interprets that sentence the same way.

You really can't answer for him on a question like that.

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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by X-member » Thu 18 Oct 2012 17:14

Spanky:
No, Einstein.

I think that I understand what Dr. Bockenstedt wrote.

I am asking McDonald why he wanted us to see that.
Maybe Dr MacDonald wanted some other member (s) to see that?

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Spanky
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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by Spanky » Thu 18 Oct 2012 17:17

"Carina":
Maybe Dr MacDonald wanted some other member to see that?
I don't know, Einstein.

Why don't you be quiet and let him answer?

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inmacdonald
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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by inmacdonald » Fri 19 Oct 2012 2:13

Dear Spanky,

It is impolite for you to character assault( with your derisive words), another member
in Good Standing of this forum.

I rasied the issue of he USE of the Words" Biofilms of borrelia ", culled from the text of her published document - DISCUSSION section.

The Discussion section is a vehicle for the authors to express their analysis and their
Summation derived from the Technical sections ( Methods etc) of the manuscript.

Ad hoc, When Dr Bockenstedt wrote her manuscript, and after the manuscript had passed through the JCI Peer review process [ at the Journal of Clinical Investigation]..............................................................................
............................................................................
No peer reviewed literature in any language, as of the date that she submitted her manuscript to the JCI, contained BIOFILMS of BORRELIA BURGDORFERI.

Now,post hoc, PLOS ONE in the week of October 24,2012, a peer reviewed
accepted for publication manuscript----Will have the words Biofilms of Borrelia burgodrferi in its title.


Quite simply , again:
No
Contemporaneous
Peer reviewed
published literature
using the words
" Biofilms " of Borrelia burgdorferi was available to Dr Linda Bockenstedt
when she penned her manuscript on Murine experimental chronic Lyme arthritis.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Are we to assume that Dr Linda Bockenstedt Reads LNE and follows my bylines on biofilms of borrelia burgdorferi?
Are we to Assume that Dr Linda Bockenstedt visits my personal Website where the PDF
file on Biofilms of Borrelia Burgdorferi is stored?
Are we to assume that Dr Linda Bockenstedt attended my Lecture on Biofilms of
Borrelia burgdorferi at the University of New Haven?

Are we to assume that Dr Linda Bockenstedt mentioned Borrelia biofilms in anticipation
of a rebuttal to her formulation?

Out of the 100,000 words in the vocabulary of a Doctor of Medicine,
Dr Linda Bockenstedt PENNED or TYPED the word "biofilm".
Why?
Because that word best describes the content of her Figure 5 A and Figure 5 B.
They don't look like "Amorphous Blobs". They look like Biofilm communities.


Any questions??
Best,
A

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Spanky
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Re: Biofilms of Borrelia - from the lips of Dr Linda Bockens

Post by Spanky » Fri 19 Oct 2012 2:40

"inmacdonald":
It is impolite for you to character assault( with your derisive words), another member
in Good Standing of this forum.
What are you referring to, there, Emeritus?

If by any chance, you are referring to my use of the word "Einstein" to address Carina, you may notice that she includes a quote from Einstein in all her posts. I was just doing so lightly, playfully, without any mean-spiritedness intended at all. And she said in a previous reply to this, "thanks". I will not address her as such if it bothers her. Just having fun. Wasn't meant rudely. Just a gentle tweak, perhaps? I assume that is Albert were are talking about...and not the guys who make the bagels...

I call you: 'Emeritus', sometimes, because that is a label you chose for yourself, correct? So, I don't see how you can find that objectionable. And likewise, Carina seems to admire Einstein and associate herself with that quote. And I won't call you "Emeritus" any more if it bothers you, either.

And...if you consult the forum rules, you will notice a specific admonition NOT to play "backseat moderator".

It is NOT you position to upbraid me for my behavior.

Also...on the subject of what to call each other...I didn't cajole you for calling me "Spanky, JD"...I just thought it was a bit silly...just plain "Spanky" is just fine.

(Snip)
Any questions??
Yes. Since you answered NOTHING of my previous question to you...I will repeat it...and please direct your response to that question directly, if you would be so kind:
Spanky:

Okay?

Could you explain for the benefit of myself and others here, please, why you quoted this? What is it that you wish us to see?

Dr. Bockenstedt: "If the spirochete DNA detected in mouse tissues after antibiotics represents a sunpopulation of live spirochetes, this population differs in several ways from persisters studied in other bacterial species".

(My emphasis).

I notice, for instance, that the quoted sentence begins with the word "if". That means that whatever follows is based on a conditional premise, right?

But the "then" portion of the "if..."then"...suggests that if those persisters are, indeed, alive...then they are different than any such other persisters...

...and the implication there, seems to be, that we, therefore, shouldn't expect, then, that this is actually the case, correct?

That this isn't a likely scenario.

Do you agree?
I guess I see that you are sort of saying look...someone is talking about Bb biofilms...but if what they are saying is that they aren't very likely to be involved...

...why did you point this out? Do you agree that I am reading that properly and understanding it?

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