Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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Re: Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Post by RitaA » Fri 28 Feb 2014 21:31

Claudia wrote:
from article "Tick test for persistent Lyme disease tried in humans"

By Kathryn Doyle

NEW YORK Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:29am EST

For most people who contract Lyme disease, a couple of weeks of antibiotics clear up the infection easily. About four weeks later, patients with no signs of the infecting bacteria in their blood get a clean bill of health.
I had a very similar reaction. It's good to know I'm not alone in being mystified by this statement.
Last edited by RitaA on Fri 28 Feb 2014 21:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Post by Claudia » Fri 28 Feb 2014 21:38

Also, if there are still "signs" in the blood, what are are they? Then what happens as far as diagnosis and treatment when it's not "a clean bill of health?"

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Re: Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Post by duncan » Sat 1 Mar 2014 14:30

This is a cornucopia of spin, imo, not to mention other assorted problems. I will only highlight a few.

"This tick method may make that process a bit easier, but only with further research, she said." This seems to me more of an advertisement for additional research dollars, than a report of the current study's efficacy - which seems to me not very impressive, but maybe my math is wrong. I cannot fault her for trying, though.

"It is very hard to find evidence of the bacteria itself, not just the antibodies..." Doesn't she have this backwards? Awkward. But interviews can be taxing and stressful.

"About four weeks later, patients with no signs of infecting bacteria in their blood are given a clean bill of health." As others have pointed out, WHAT SIGNS ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT? Antibodies? Debatable. Are they referencing bacteria themselves? We know that is almost never found except in the EM. Potentially misleading at best. And it does beg the question: What about patients who continue to have signs? What do the IDSA/CDC/NIH say happens then? Why not go in that direction for a real interesting interview?

"But 10 to 20% of people who get Lyme disease...continue to report having pain, fatigue and aches even when it appears the infection is gone." Pain, fatigue, and aches??? Incomplete. Understated. Misleading. No mention of cognitive dysfunction. No mention of severity or degree of impairment- and as with ANY disease, severity matters. As does duration. And 20% of 300,000 year after year is no small sum. I'm sure this isn't a whitewash, but...really?
AND.."...even when it appears the infection is gone." Buried in that little observation is the controversy upon which most of the Lyme wars pivot! How does one manage to skate pass this little gem without reaching out and giving it the comprehensive examination it warrants?

"Many chronic Lyme disease patients have been assigned the diagnosis on the basis of symptoms only...or the use of nonvalidated tests..." I thought Xenodiagnosis was a nonvalidated test, and on the basis of this initial effort, I would recommend closing the coffers and denying any more of the limited Lyme budget to this misdirection.

"The only way to diagnosis a persistent infection is by finding live bacteria..." Curious claim in so much that it is not required - nor even expected - to find live bacteria in acute cases prior to antibiotic treatment, or during it, let alone following standard treatment.

There's more, but my fingers are tired.

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Re: Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Post by RitaA » Sat 1 Mar 2014 15:43

Thanks for your comments/observations, Duncan. I'm glad you managed to key in what you did before your fingers got too tired to continue.

While reading the article, I couldn't shake the feeling that the author isn't all that knowledgeable about Lyme disease, and especially about the very real and serious challenges faced by some (albeit not all) patients. Twenty percent of 300,000 year after year does indeed add up!

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Re: Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Post by lou » Sat 1 Mar 2014 16:00

Her job depends on spouting this kind of nonsense. Goal here is job security not science.

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Re: Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Post by inmacdonald » Sat 1 Mar 2014 20:55

Marques again sitting safe in her Washington DC office and
directing potentially dangerous research from afar.


The total maximal body volume of a repleted Ixodid tick is less than 0.5ml.
Most of the volume of a repleted fed to satiation tick is chitin and tick innerds,
with the balance being ingested human blood.

The detection of BB DNA from such a minute human blood sample acquired via
a xenodiagnostically fed tick is very very significant.

Now we ought to do Tick squash preps on the positive xenodiagnostic ticks
and use DNa probes to see what the profiles of borrelia DNA positive areas
actually look like.

Granular forms - very high on the list.
Cystic forms - very high on the list
Spiral forms - not so much, but an outside chance.

Next step : where the rubber meets the road:
Will Dr Adriana actually stick out her arm and volunteer?
Will Dr Linda actually stick out her arm and volunteer?

Part B of this experiment in Xenodiagnosis is whether the Xenodiagnostic ticks
from Chronic Lyme ( or if you like it PLDS patients)
can ,by their bite
Transmit disease to a human who is negative for borreliosis-complex and co-infections
at time zero.

Alan B. MacDonald FCAP FASCP
MARCH 1, 2014

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Re: Xenodiagnosis in Humans to Detect Bb infection

Post by Pandora » Sun 23 Mar 2014 11:49

The infection status of mice was determined by xenodiagnosis
35 days after the nymphal challenge. Generalized linear
models with a binomial error function were used to compare
the proportion of infected ticks and the proportion of infected
mice among treatments.
http://sites.sas.upenn.edu/brisson-lab/ ... w2013a.pdf

So how come all them Autism babies are seronegative yet very infected?
Multiple Chronic infections found using molecular detections instead of antibodies they don't even make by the worlds leading virologist, Noble Prize winner for the discovery of HIV Luc Montagnier.
Only problem was keeping its discovery in litigation for 30yrs.

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