Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic Lyme

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Margherita
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2012 18:22

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by Margherita » Wed 25 Jun 2014 18:48

Hi Velvetmagnetta and Camp Other,

Thanks for sharing your points of view. As I stated earlier I'm just a simple layperson searching for an answer on the question why we do not recover. The 'lipofection' (or DNA transfection) thing I referred to might be one of the possible causes. I learned about it on the following topic:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... f=5&t=3627

with in particular Alan MacDonald's explanation dated July 7th, 2013:
LIPOSOMES -- THE CORRECT SCIENTIFIC NAME FOR "BLEbs

Liposome is the scientific name for the "blebs" which emanate from theouter surface
membrane of Borrelia species as the spiral microbes move through tissues and body fluids.

It is , at first glance, astonishing, that any DNA or MRna at all would be found
in the space between the outer surface membrane region and the cylindrical cell wall.
One would predict that DNA
"Belongs" INSIDE of the CELL Wall Cylindrical region of the spirochete.

After all, the Cell Wall Cylinder region of the spirochete is Rigid, protective, and persists even after
the Outer Surface Membrane "Outer cylinder" has been stripped away by washing the spirochetes
in phosphate buffered saline. The Outer surface membrane is "slime" , moveable, and relatively
fragile, when Compared with the Cell wall invested Inner cylinder compartment.
The Cell Wall is the Protective Wrapper for all of the Guts of the spirochete.

Be that as it may, Nature has its own set of rules.
The Outer surface membrane "cylinder region" contains its own DNA and RNA.

Bleb like bodies [Liposomes] regularly "pinch off" from the outer surface membrane cylinder and
these Liposomes contain DNA and Rna as demonstrated by Dr Claude Garon by Transmission
Electronmicroscopy study. Individual moleclues of actual Circular DNA and Linear DNA were photographed
in his classcial article in Scanning Electron Microscopy journal ( supplement 0 in 1988.

There appears to be NO LIMIT to the number of blebs which can be shed by a living borrelia
during its lifetime, and no decrement in the the total DNA composition of the bleb shedding
Borrelia as they "shed their blebs" as they move through tissues.

This Bleb shedding during lifetime of the spirochete is a Biological Multiplier.

The Free blebs have been photographed in high density at the tick bite site
{Beerman et al} and have been tracked as the Bleb/liposomes fuse with the cell membranes of living
human lymphocytes, neurons, and other non-phagocytic cells. After fusion of the Bleb/ liposomes
with the mammalian cell membrane, the Bleb/liposomes enter the mammalian cytoplasm.
The Internalized cytoplasmic bleb/liposomes then move across the cytoplasm to
fuse with the Nuclear membrane. Penetration of the mammalian cell nucleoplasm by 'borrelia
bleb/liposomes enables the release of Borrelia DNA and Rna contained within the blebs
with the Nucleoplasm and direct access to Mammalian DNa.
Liposomes are a tool for the TRANSFECTION of Mammalian DNA.
[Commercially available kits available for purchase to induce laboratory TRANSFECTION
of mammalian cells.
Internalized Bleb DNa is free within the nucleoplasm to TRANSFECT Human DNA.
Transfection is a Permanent Chemical incorporation of DNA of one species {ie Borrelia}
with the DNA of another species { ie Human}. Borrelia DNA contains Covalently linked ends.
Human DNA has Covalently linked ends .
After TRANSFECTION, the Borrelia DNA has a permanent place in the TRANSFECTED cell
DNA content. Consequences of such a transfection are enormous. Mutation of human DNA,
Borrelia DNA transcription of its DNA, now resident inside a human cell, and movement of
borrelia directed proteins to the cell surface of the Transfected human cells.
Borrelia proteins which are chemically incorporated into the cell membranes of human cells
would provoke an immune response against the Transfected human cells.
Auto-immunity is thereby explained. Autoimmunity in Borrelia infections has long been noted
by Dr. Allen Steere. But Dr. Allen Steere has no scientific explanation for the reason that
Autoimmunity would actually develop as a result of borrelia infection.

Bleb [liposome] mediated Transfection provides the answer to Autoimmune events in
borreliosis.

Alan B.MacDonald MD
July 7, 2013
I don't know what you people think about it but to me it makes sense.

velvetmagnetta
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun 23 Feb 2014 22:47

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by velvetmagnetta » Wed 25 Jun 2014 22:30

Hi Duncan -

When I asked what were the ENT tests you had done for your terrible case of vertigo an dizziness you said:
The ENT test took place on like a Thursday afternoon for four hours, and then the following Friday morning for about three hours. I don't recall all the tests. I remember I think the first was a hearing test, but it took a long time. The test I remember the most was they placed me in this dark chamber with a chair that turned 360. I had a visor placed on my face, and it covered my eyes to a certain extent, but I could see a projected screen in front of me, and I remember something like a laser dot I had to focus on. Anyway, they turned all the lights out in that room, and it was pitch black, and the chair spun round and round, and I was told to try to focus on the light or something like that. Crazy sh*t.
Hee hee...What...The doctors said, "Hey this guy says he's really dizzy, let's blindfold him, strap him to a chair, and spin him around a few times!" Wee!

I'm glad you didn't throw up! Sounds like a test you wouldn't want to repeat. Ever.


About the "cytokine" theory of Post-Treatment Lyme Disease pain...Duncan said:
Even the concept of herxing is not safe. There is at least one very smart advocate who believes Lyme herxing is not your body's reaction to spirochetal die-off. She believes it can be explained by a cytokine storm.
I believed in this one for quite a while. It seemed to make the most sense - especially after Linda Bockenstedt's mouse experiment where she found left-over pieces of Lyme debris after antibiotic treatment to be immune-reactive. I'm not so sure even about this explanation anymore. My very diligent doctor (a wonderful and caring LLMD) has sent me to take 5 different blood tests that measure different cytokine levels and effects every three months for over three years now (that's over 45 tests) - and I am now absolutely sure that these results that are always abnormal (either very high or very low depending on the substance being tested) have no bearing on how I am actually feeling at the time of the test.

Like, when I'm feeling really bad and go and take the group of tests, the numbers come out really bad. But then, when I'm feeling relatively better (which is not a whole lot better, but significantly so), the numbers come out equally bad - and sometimes even worse!

So, these measures of cytokine storm levels do not seem to correlate with how I am actually feeling at the time at all.

Pandora
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue 20 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by Pandora » Thu 26 Jun 2014 2:54

duncan wrote:Has borrelia ever been found in the intestines? Surely in animal like dogs, or at the very least, mice? But has it been found in human intestines? I'm just curious, since when you think of it, it was an odd observation from the gastro, or at least it strikes me as odd.

BTW, my gastro, who I only went for a consult and then a colonoscopy, also referred to it as Lymes, even though I know my chart had to have said Lyme since I provided all the data. It was like nails scratching on a blackboard. Made me wince worse than the procedure, I swear. :)
Wakefield found Measles DNA in the guts of Autistic kids for which they crucified him because they knew where it came from....Gene sharing stealth infections....
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/gut.htm

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.ph ... dren.3503/

People like the IDSA/CDC/NIH/HHS/FDA seem to conveniently forget the morphology of spirochetal disease.

Pandora
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue 20 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by Pandora » Fri 27 Jun 2014 5:56

Fighting Parasitic Infection Inadvertently Unleashes Dormant Virus
Released: 6/26/2014 12:00 PM EDT
http://www.newswise.com/articles/fighti ... mant-virus

That really deserves a thread all its own...Because for one thing its the first time anyone has bothered to look.

Esp. since they don't even know WHAT the parasites are like the one's Russia is finding in all their pts.
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 246#p36246

Camp Other
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed 2 Mar 2011 4:32
Contact:

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by Camp Other » Fri 27 Jun 2014 9:31

Pandora wrote:Fighting Parasitic Infection Inadvertently Unleashes Dormant Virus
Released: 6/26/2014 12:00 PM EDT
http://www.newswise.com/articles/fighti ... mant-virus

That really deserves a thread all its own...Because for one thing its the first time anyone has bothered to look.

Esp. since they don't even know WHAT the parasites are like the one's Russia is finding in all their pts.
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 246#p36246
I suggest, Pandora, perhaps breaking out your last comment here and this one into threads on their own because they are new and different topics.

Pandora
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue 20 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by Pandora » Sat 28 Jun 2014 4:05

Thanks Camp but I'm not qualified to determine where a post belongs in relation to spirochetal disease. All of mine get moved to Gen. Health. LOL
Feel Free to put it where ever you want! LOL

lou
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri 2 Nov 2007 0:41

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by lou » Sun 29 Jun 2014 2:20

Well, let's see. I had a tickbite; three years later I had a positive test for lyme and a multitude of symptoms. One year after that I had a positive babesia test. So four years of babesiosis until I got some treatment. If that isn't chronic, what is it. Anything the body does not fight off, that produces continuing symptoms is chronic. That's the official mainstream definition of chronic.

What is the point of surveying medical literature in what is still an emerging disease complex? Especially when contrary views are being censored. These guys are just liars.

And it puzzles me as to what Henry is even doing on this forum, unless he is a troll. How many other disease forums have people who don't believe in the disease or in treating it? Very odd. Seems like he ought to get a life and leave the sick people alone.

velvetmagnetta
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun 23 Feb 2014 22:47

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by velvetmagnetta » Sun 29 Jun 2014 10:43

Hi Lou -

I think a chronic, ongoing, persisting infection and chronic, ongoing, painful,and debilitating symptoms originally caused by an infection are two totally different things in terms of treatment.

An ongoing active infection needs to be killed off with antibiotics or anti-microbials or potent herbs.

Persisting pain and disability caused by an infection that has been eradicated will not improve with more anitbiotics. If the pathogen causing the disease is already dead, and yet a person is still suffering with debilitating symptoms, this calls for a more specific approach.

We can all agree that there is something still very wrong with us after both short and long courses of antibiotics. So, then, what now? How do we address this pain and disability if it is an after-effect of spirochetal diasease? Is it curable? What is actually wrong with us? Is it our nerves? If so, is it our peripheral or central nervous system? (Thanks Camp Other for pointing out this very important distinction to me!)

Why is Jasmine Auriculatum working so well for me? What is it doing? Is it actually healing nerves damaged by Lyme disease? Is there anything else that might accomplish this?

If it is our nerves that are damaged, then how are they damaged? Is it the myelin sheathing? Or is it inside the actual neuron. Moreover, is the damage in the brain or spinal cord?

Pandora
Posts: 252
Joined: Tue 20 Mar 2012 14:58

Re: Chronic coinfections in patients diagnosed with chronic

Post by Pandora » Mon 30 Jun 2014 16:22

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24951129
Increase in malaria load correlated with increase in EBV load (p < 0.0001).

EBV load was higher in third trimester (p = 0.04) than first and second trimester of pregnancy independent of known infections.

Significantly higher frequency and elevated EBV loads were found in pregnant women with malaria than in women without evidence of P. falciparum infection during pregnancy.

The loss of control of EBV latency following P. falciparum infection during pregnancy

and subsequent increase in EBV load in circulation could contribute to enhanced shedding of EBV
-----------------------
CHRONIC INFECTIONS in IMMUNE SUPPRESSION. It is the immune suppression they caused that which we fight in the over 95% of the pops infected with Epstein Borreliosis.

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