Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Martian
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Martian » Wed 24 Dec 2014 3:47

ChronicLyme19 wrote:I do still agree that sexual transmission of lyme is plausible,
It's not really, actually.

Plausibly, at best perhaps it may happen as a very rare accident, just like transmission via mosquitoes.

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ChronicLyme19
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by ChronicLyme19 » Wed 24 Dec 2014 4:16

Martian wrote:Plausibly, at best perhaps it may happen as a very rare accident, just like transmission via mosquitoes.
Wait, if it can happen once, then it could be plausible right? I meant nothing about the frequency of it actually happening, just that it seems it could. If it can float around in our secretions and the partner has a cut then in theory it could infect the other person right?
Half of what you are taught is incorrect, but which half? What if there's another half missing?

Martian
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Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Martian » Wed 24 Dec 2014 4:43

ChronicLyme19 wrote:
Martian wrote:Plausibly, at best perhaps it may happen as a very rare accident, just like transmission via mosquitoes.
Wait, if it can happen once, then it could be plausible right? I meant nothing about the frequency of it actually happening, just that it seems it could. If it can float around in our secretions and the partner has a cut then in theory it could infect the other person right?
Perhaps in theory, but I think studies indicate that Bb needs the tick route to get "activated", so to speak.

The point is that Borrelia burgdorferi has evolved to be vector-borne, whereas Treponema pallidum has evolved to be sexually transmitted. Ever heard that Treponema pallidum was transmitted via a tick?

Oops, I used the "" signs, and I thought I was a "serious thinker"...

Henry
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Henry » Wed 24 Dec 2014 14:21

Not all Treponema are equal and cause diseases like syphilis. For example, Treponema denticola is a common inhabitant of the oral microbial flora. Although it, in conjunction with other microbes causes gingivitis, it in no way causes a disease like syphilis. So, be careful about drawing certain analogies, especially with respect to spirochetes. And, then there are the Leptospira .that cause other types of diseases. not at all like syphilis. The pathologies associated with these spirochetal infections are distinctly different.

Lorima
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Lorima » Wed 24 Dec 2014 14:31

I think the Ixodes tick route makes Bb infection more likely, because Bb replicates there, so that a higher dose is delivered through a tick bite, than by other means of inoculation.

But the infection can be transmitted by needle innoculation of cultured spirochetes, or by transplantation of human infected skin, so the tick isn't necessary, in that limited sense.

In other words, it's not theoretically impossible for transmission to be by other means, though they would be expected to be less efficient.
"I have to understand the world, you see."
Richard Feynman


RitaA
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by RitaA » Thu 25 Dec 2014 2:26

Henry wrote:Not all Treponema are equal and cause diseases like syphilis. For example, Treponema denticola is a common inhabitant of the oral microbial flora. Although it, in conjunction with other microbes causes gingivitis, it in no way causes a disease like syphilis. So, be careful about drawing certain analogies, especially with respect to spirochetes. And, then there are the Leptospira .that cause other types of diseases. not at all like syphilis. The pathologies associated with these spirochetal infections are distinctly different.
There's no doubt that differences exist between various types of spirochetes and their modes of transmission, however a few researchers have commented on similarities when they believe they exist.

I happened to come across the following two abstracts by pure chance, but I now wonder what you make of the fairly recent finding of Th17 in the CSF of some confirmed neuroborreliosis as well as neurosyphilis patients?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21507218
J Neuroinflammation. 2011 Apr 20;8:36. doi: 10.1186/1742-2094-8-36.

Indications of Th1 and Th17 responses in cerebrospinal fluid from patients with Lyme neuroborreliosis: a large retrospective study.

Henningsson AJ1, Tjernberg I, Malmvall BE, Forsberg P, Ernerudh J.

Author information

1Department of Infectious Diseases, Ryhov County Hospital, Jönköping, Sweden.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Previous studies indicate that successful resolution of Lyme neuroborreliosis (NB) is associated with a strong T helper (Th) 1-type cytokine response in the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) followed by a down-regulating Th2 response, whereas the role of the recently discovered Th17 cytokine response is unknown.

[snip]

CONCLUSION:

Our results support the notion that early NB is dominated by a Th1-type response, eventually accompanied by a Th2 response. Interestingly, IL-17 was increased exclusively in CSF from patients with confirmed NB, suggesting a hitherto unknown role for Th17 in NB. However, for conclusive evidence, future prospective studies are needed.

PMID:
21507218
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCID:
PMC3108302
Free PMC Article
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25080350
PLoS Negl Trop Dis. 2014 Jul 31;8(7):e3004. doi: 10.1371/journal.pntd.0003004. eCollection 2014.

Increased interleukin-17 in peripheral blood and cerebrospinal fluid of neurosyphilis patients.

Wang C1, Zhu L2, Gao Z2, Guan Z1, Lu H1, Shi M1, Gao Y1, Xu H1, Yang XF3, Zhou P1.

Author information

1 STD Institute, Shanghai Skin Disease Hospital, Shanghai, People's Republic of China.
2 Shanghai Skin Disease Hospital, Clinical School of Anhui Medical University, Shanghai, People's Republic of China.
3 Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Indiana University School of Medicine, Indianapolis, Indiana, United States of America.

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Treponema pallidum infection evokes vigorous immune responses, resulting in tissue damage. Several studies have demonstrated that IL-17 may be involved in the pathogenesis of syphilis. However, the role of Th17 response in neurosyphilis remains unclear.

[snip]

CONCLUSIONS:

These findings indicate that Th17 response may be involved in central nervous system damage and associated with clinical symptoms in neurosyphilis patients. Th17/IL-17 may be used as an alternative surrogate marker for assessing the efficacy of clinical treatment of neurosyphilis patients.

PMID:
25080350
[PubMed - in process]
PMCID:
PMC4117445
Free PMC Article
Edited to add:

Henry,

It seems that Th17 has been getting lots of attention from MS researchers in the past decade or so. Here's one of many article abstracts I came across where Th17 and CNS autoimmunity are mentioned. This leads me to believe Th17 isn't specific enough to be used as a biomarker for any specific infectious or brain disease:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24681001
Exp Neurol. 2014 Dec;262PA:18-27. doi: 10.1016/j.expneurol.2014.03.009. Epub 2014 Mar 27.

Th17 cells in central nervous system autoimmunity.

Sie C1, Korn T2, Mitsdoerffer M3.

Abstract

Multiple sclerosis (MS) is the most important autoimmune disease of the central nervous system (CNS). Its animal model experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) has been instrumental in defining the features of the novel T helper cell subset Th17. Conversely, the broad characterization of Th17 immune responses has substantially advanced our understanding of organ-specific autoimmunity and inspired almost a decade of immunological research. Here, we review the current knowledge on Th17 cells and their contribution to the immunopathology in EAE and MS, covering recent proceedings in the induction, modulation and effector mechanisms of this versatile T lymphocyte subset. In particular, we discuss the emerging role of mucosal immunity in the regulation of Th17 cells and CNS autoimmunity, the accumulating evidence for extensive plasticity in the Th17 subset, and their molecular mode of action in promoting this debilitating disease.

Copyright © 2014 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

KEYWORDS:
Experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis; Multiple sclerosis; Th17 cells

PMID:
24681001
[PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Edited once again to add:

One person was unlucky enough to be diagnosed with both neurosyphilis and neuroborreliosis. There must be at least some overlap in signs/symptoms if the authors of this article are recommending other doctors also consider the possibility of neuroborreliosis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15580469
Nervenarzt. 2005 Jun;76(6):724-32.

[Neurosyphilis and neuroborreliosis. Retrospective evaluation of 22 cases].

[Article in German]

Blatz R1, Kühn HJ, Hermann W, Rytter M, Rodloff AC.

Author information

1Institut für Medizinische Mikrobiologie, Universität Leipzig.

Abstract

We present laboratory data from 22 patients suspected of having neurosyphilis. In two cases the suspicion could not be confirmed, and in 20 cases neurosyphilis was detected. The sera from 17 patients were also assayed for Borrelia-specific antibodies. Suspicious immunoglobulin G antibody indices were detected in nine cases and a suspicious immunoglobulin M antibody index in one. In six of these, stored CSF/serum pairs were available to specify the antibodies by immunoblotting. This allowed for the identification of one patient apparently infected by both Borrelia spp. and Treponema pallidum. In all cases of newly suspected neurosyphilis, we recommend considering neuroborreliosis at the same time.

PMID:
15580469
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Last edited by RitaA on Thu 25 Dec 2014 19:15, edited 1 time in total.

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ChronicLyme19
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by ChronicLyme19 » Thu 25 Dec 2014 4:48

So it seems the consensus is that it is plausible, but probably unlikely (perhaps even highly unlikely) due to:
-potential need for activation from ticks, or activation from ticks makes it easier to infect
-higher spirochete load needed to establish infection
Half of what you are taught is incorrect, but which half? What if there's another half missing?

Margherita
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Margherita » Sat 27 Dec 2014 20:26

Plausibly, at best perhaps it may happen as a very rare accident, just like transmission via mosquitoes.
The problem is that as long as persons stung by mosquitoes and getting sick after a while are not tested for Lyme disease, we will never know if transmission via mosquitoes is so rare as it seems to be now. A xenodiagnosis study might bring the answer.

Underneath an article which for you Martian, shouldn't be a problem to read:

http://nos.nl/artikel/692754-muggenbeet ... op-wk.html

This sportsman, stung by a mosquito and getting very sick then, was given a XXL antibiotic treatment immediately. Do you think he was tested for Lyme disease? I don't think so (and even if he was, most probably due to the antibiotics the test would have had a negative outcome anyhow).

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LHCTom
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by LHCTom » Sun 28 Dec 2014 6:52

All should note that F1000 Research is one of those "publish first, review later -- if at all" -- type of on-line publications, that gives science a bad name. In other words, it will publish any kind of "crap", work that is unable to pass the test of rigorous peer-review required for a reputable scientific journal. Here is a statement of their policy:
I sense hurt feelings due to loss of control. The quality and trustworthiness of "peer-review" is so low, F1000 Research papers are probably as good as many "reputable scientific journals". Groupthink and career fear permeate the peer review process. Lets face it, once a group of controlling good old boys decide what is evidence and factual, the peer review is often just a method for directing the strongest personalities beliefs. Very much like the church.

It may not permeate all areas of science but certainly the arena surrounding Lyme Disease is hopelessly lost. Its like a military junta is controlling the definition of evidence, most of the funding, the dialogue, and has taken control of most journals and medical publications.

I agree with Duncan that people who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

Its not that the quality of F1000 publications is high but rather the control of the whole system of science around Lyme and total lack of imagination among the junta leaders has brought the
rigorous peer-review required for a reputable scientific journal.
down to pseudoscience of managed evidence. The HMO of science.
The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism.

Attributed to William Osler, 1902

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