Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
duncan
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by duncan » Mon 5 Jan 2015 19:51

"When both of you are faced with the prospect that you might just be wrong and don't know what you are talking about, you simply evade the issue by changing the subject."

Henry, you comb through all my posts where you and I have had exchanges, and you find the ones where I have been forced to evade any issue conjured by you by changing the subject. Go on, knock yourself out.

What do you imagine would happen if I look for all the times you simply misstated history, or disappeared for a while when you couldn't or wouldn't field responses flung your way? Who's playing games here, when all is said and done? I doubt it will be a patient.

Now, back to the study, which is the subject of this thread. What exactly do you think the purpose of the study was?

Henry
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Henry » Mon 5 Jan 2015 20:25

The purpose is obvious from the paper itself and certainly the press release that they prepared to highlight their "results". I won't play any games with you, Duncan. Just read Donta's review. He rejected the paper for the same reasons that I noted.

TwiceBitten
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by TwiceBitten » Mon 5 Jan 2015 20:36

Henry wrote:Twice Bitten: What do all these extraneous issues have to do with the main point of this discussion, i.e., that the mere presence of Borrelia in vaginal and seminal secretions -- if such an observation can indeed be confirmed-- is sufficient evidence to indicate cause of disease? Tell me why that is so? The same can be said for Duncan's comments. When both of you are faced with the prospect that you might just be wrong and don't know what you are talking about, you simply evade the issue by changing the subject. Typical of a small mind at play. You speak of "certainty", what's wrong with asking someone who "claims" to find Borrelia in vaginal and seminal secretions to prove that they cause Lyme disease? Wasn't that the main point of the work? Let's not play games here. The work of Middleveen et al. proves NOTHING. Even Donta -- hardly a "fan" of the IDSA-- agrees that is the case.
Henry, take a step back for a minute, and take a deep breath. Ok?

Now, close your eyes, shut out all distractions, and think to and for yourself, why are we all in this "chronic Lyme disease debate", this controversy over how patients feel after becoming ill from one or more tick-borne infections? What is it really all about? Why do patients even care?

I will answer it for you, being so bold as to speak on behalf of all patients for this one moment --- because patients do not feel well and they want to get better. I hope that is simple enough for you to understand. Do you? People are sick, and they want treatments that work for them, because they want to feel better. Easy enough, it should be.

You, Sir, chronically evade answering questions, and so I ask you, what would you like the name of a topic to be so that people can get an answer from you? "Questions for Henry"? Ok, I'll start that topic now. If you can't or don't want to answer valid questions, then you should not relentlessly attempt to set healthcare policy, and even worse, set healthcare policy based on a single anecdote of your choosing.

Henry
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Henry » Mon 5 Jan 2015 20:42

Look. The subject of this thread is "Expanded study confirms Lyme disease may be sexually transmitted". The questions that you ask are not relevant to that issue. I'm on topic. You and Duncan are not.
Last edited by Henry on Mon 5 Jan 2015 20:44, edited 1 time in total.

admin
Site Admin
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by admin » Mon 5 Jan 2015 20:43

Reminder,

This topic is meant for information and discussion about the study "Culture and identification of Borrelia spirochetes in human vaginal and seminal secretions".

Henry
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Henry » Mon 5 Jan 2015 21:18

Twice Bitten: Here's the reference to the lyrica study, which was a small pilot study but 9 of 10 patients respondedn favorably -- which is good, don't you think: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16088158 . I don't recall ever mentioning a therapeutic approach for any of the other medical conditions that you mention.

duncan
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by duncan » Mon 5 Jan 2015 21:24

I have read Sam Donta's comments. No games, Henry. My question to you is, why do I care what Sam Donta has to say? If you share those opinions, then just state those opinions. I promise you that I will hold your opinion in the same regard I hold Donta's.

The merits of a paper do not hinge necessarily on a given reviewer's recommendation or disapproval. It's what YOU think that matters, or what I or anyone else who scrutinizes the particulars, comes away with.

Personally, I think the effect may prove larger than the topic, and more relevant to the Lyme community.

Relative to the Lyrica study: Seriously? 10 patients, evaluated with a survey. THIS you consider meaningful and robust research? Did you make recommendations to patients based on this??

Henry
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Henry » Mon 5 Jan 2015 22:09

What do I think about Middleveen et al.? I agree with Donta's review and would reject the paper if asked to review it. I agree-- the gabepentin study was a small, pilot study as I stated. However, you must admit that getting favorable results in 9 of 10 patients is promising, don't you agree? It certainly suggests doing further studies, if one find enough patients to enroll in such a study . I suspect gabepentin (lyrica) may benefit some, but not all patients with PTLDS, since their symptoms may not be due to the same causes in all cases. So, you tell me why you think the inconclusive effect described by Middleveen et al. may "... prove larger than the topic and more relevant to the Lyme community"? You certainly don't have very high standards to make such a absurd statement.

Martian
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by Martian » Mon 5 Jan 2015 22:17

I wonder why some people defend the publications and practices of the idiots and quacks who are amongst the so-called "llmds", no matter how questionable or right out ridiculous their findings, statements or conclusions are.

The conclusions in the study and the press release are a joke. This is pseudoscience, at best.

But one shouldn't expect better from "our friends" of the ILADS, who now have a history of over 10 years of idiocy and quackery and only going further downhill every year. Those who defend this are enablers of it.

duncan
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Re: Expanded Study Confirms Lyme May Be Sexually Transmitted

Post by duncan » Mon 5 Jan 2015 22:24

:D

Henry, Lyrica for patients who still have active infections?

Lyrica for patients suffering from immune dysfunction?

Have you any idea how Fibro patients look at the efficacy of Lyrica? One thing Lrica has done is help validate that community, and that is a huge step forward for them. But it's a bandaid. It's an aspirin when people are still crying out for a clear idea of what's making them sick. For all you know, you're advocating throwing an aspirin at a broken leg.

How about embracing research that drills down on the cause giving rise to the symptoms? How about getting involved in research that tries to identify and fix the cause, instead anemic efforts at muzzling the symptoms?

How about validating patients' concerns instead of adding to them?

Re: the study at the heart of this thread - it captured your attention, and hv808ct's, didn't it?

Martian, if you are going in invoke pseudoscience, please tell me how this study is different from a Wormser study whose real effect - one might argue - is to simply impede competitive offerings? Is that more scientific?
Last edited by duncan on Mon 5 Jan 2015 22:33, edited 4 times in total.

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