Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
migs
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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by migs » Fri 2 Dec 2016 0:01

Yes of course there are other theories of persisting symptoms. We have heard the auto-immune, daily living, viral, and others. Persistent infection is a very realistic culprit that really needs to be investigated thoroughly before funding is dried up and put into other areas. For anyone involved in Lyme research to ignore this as a possibility would be a terrible lack of thought process by anyone considering themselves to have any intellectual curiosity whatsoever.

Henry
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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by Henry » Fri 2 Dec 2016 14:38

Duncan: But you fail to grasp the main point of all this research, namely, that the work is directed toward find an antibiotic to cure a persistent infection FOR WHICH THERE IS NO EVIDENCE in the first place. It would make more sense and be more "courageous " to examine other possibilities. And, then there is the issue of whether such in vitro studies truly approximate what occurs in vivo where the host immune system plays a major role. But, I've commented on that at great length. Under such circumstances, "foolhardy" rather than "courageous" would be a better term.

Ask an oncologist or cancer patient getting chemotherapy if they think most anti-cancer drugs are extremely toxic and the ethical issue of using such drugs as antibiotics -- when other less toxic real antibiotics are available to treat bacterial infections-- and the ethical issues should become rather obvious. As an aside, most anti-cancer drugs target fast growing cells, regardless of whether they are cancerous or not. Hard to put Borrelia burgdorferi in that category, since it grows very slowly.

duncan
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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by duncan » Fri 2 Dec 2016 14:44

Henry: "...a persistent infection FOR WHICH THERE IS NO EVIDENCE..."

That is blatantly false.

You are welcome to use me as an example, if you like. If I walk into ANY IDSA clinician's office with my symptom cluster, and they order the three FDA-approved Lyme diagnostics, I should be diagnosed with late stage Lyme, in accordance with IDSA Guidelines. Sadly, some prefer to close their eyes and misrepresent, and it is the patient population which suffers. Because I have received some treatment, there are those who would try to argue that I cannot still have Lyme, despite my EVIDENCE to the contrary. (Incidentally, this study demonstrates that conventional therapy can come up short - THAT is the point of this research.)

I am one of the lucky ones whose immune system has remained robust enough to register positives, or be infected with strains/species that are picked up. Many are not so fortunate. But why should it be that someone who has one or two or three bands that are Bb-specific can be denied treatment, or said to not have Lyme - even though those Bb-specific bands represent EVIDENCE of infection?

Thank God for researchers such as the ones who authored this study.

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by Henry » Fri 2 Dec 2016 16:13

Duncan: Once again your fail to grasp the crux of the matter, namely, that seropositivity in your case might only indicate past exposure, not active infection. As I have noted before, patients who have been correctly diagnosed and treated for Lyme disease often remain seropositive for long periods of time after the infection has been cleared. If you were truly actively infected for all these many years, you surely would have all 5 -- if not more-- of the 10 bands recommended by the CDC for an IgG Western blot. Don't you think it is strange that you can only muster only 3 bands to support your claim of which one -- as I recall-- is OspA that is not diagnostically relevant? I repeat -- in your case, there is no evidence for active infection, hence the desperate need for you to find a test like the Ceres nanotrap test to prove that you are infected.

duncan
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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by duncan » Fri 2 Dec 2016 16:16

Oh, I have five or more bands positive, Henry. Otherwise, how could I claim to satisfy each of the three FDA-approved metrics?

You need to read before you leap.

And don't forget, theoretically each of those one in five that are not cured also satisfied the 2T at some point. Medicine - last I checked - is not a democracy. If 20% remain suffering, medicine is coming up short - it is failing.

Henry
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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by Henry » Fri 2 Dec 2016 18:42

Duncan: I seriously doubt if there are that many people with your clinical history.

duncan
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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by duncan » Fri 2 Dec 2016 19:10

What differentiates me from someone that consistently only registers IgM positive? Or someone that only has two or even a single IgG band? Or someone that doesn't ever even get a shot at the WB because the ELISA came up short in error? A suspect algorithm?

The Bb diagnostic and treatment infrastructure is flawed. It works for many, yes, but it fails too many others.

What's needed is a broad and across-the-board acknowledgement of this, and then a deliberate 180 turn of the medical institution as a whole to investigate why treatment fails so many, and develop new and better diagnostics, and, eventually, find treatments that succeed for everyone.

nnecker
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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by nnecker » Fri 2 Dec 2016 21:33

Yeah Henry,and as you can see a big chunk of those 60,000 people a year that duncan ALWAYS brings up, come on here to gripe about the flawed treatment infrastructure. :lol:

Duncan,you're so full of it,it's coming out of your ears.

Henry
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Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by Henry » Fri 2 Dec 2016 21:55

Duncan: What you said doesn't make sense. You last Friday, in a previous post, " Oh, I have five or more bands positive, Henry. Otherwise, how could I claim to satisfy each of the three FDA-approved metrics " . I assume the 3 FDA-approved metrics include an ELISA which if positive is followed by and IgM or IgG Western blot. But, today you state that you couldn't "get a shot at the WB because the ELISA came up short". Sounds like your medical history changes from day to day. How can you blame the medical profession when you can't even keep your medical history straight. Refresh my memory. Tell me today if your were ELISA positive or negative, and what bands did you have on your IgM and IgG WBs ? I'm getting confusing and mixed signals from you. And once again, upon what evidence to you claim that you have an active infection?

duncan
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Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Post by duncan » Fri 2 Dec 2016 22:16

Clarity admittedly is not one of my strength these days, but I'm pretty sure it is hard to misinterpret what I wrote.

Geez, Henry, I shouldn't have to walk you through each paragraph of my narrative. I test positive on all three FDA-approved tests. I did NOT say I tested negative on the ELISA. Please re-read that sentence. In point of fact, I have never tested negative on an ELISA.

I have been consistent about my Lyme results for many, many posts. I cannot account for your inability to digest and absorb what I lay down in print.

I satisfy the IDSA and CDC criteria for late stage Lyme. Perhaps you need to re-acquaint yourself with what those criteria entail.

It just occurred to me: Henry, you do know what the three FDA-approved Lyme diagnostics are, yes?

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