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Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Tue 20 Dec 2016 18:30
by Henry
What you say is a fairy tale if there ever was one.................

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Wed 21 Dec 2016 18:02
by Lorima
Henry wrote:You're right. It's not rocket science. If they were diagnosed correctly and given IDSA-recommended treatment, they were cured of Lyme disease. So, their symptoms must be caused by something else -- obviously.
I love it when Henry reveals how simple-minded his beliefs are.

I do think it is worthwhile to keep demonstrating that we know more about the science regarding Lyme disease than the IDSA and the ALDF...or at least that we, not Henry et al, are the ones who are paying attention to it, Duncan and dlf. I also think it is worthwhile to point out repeatedly that Henry’s view is simple-minded and political, and there is no chance that science will ever influence his opinions. If the rogue field leaders change their talking points, so will Henry et al. Otherwise, not.

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Wed 21 Dec 2016 19:11
by Henry
You need such self-serving tripe to bolster your confidence. It's laughable :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Wed 21 Dec 2016 20:15
by Lorima
Projection, maybe?

If I were you, I would question your detractors' knowledge, not our confidence. I'm quite certain the IDSA is wrong, and their literature on LD verges on scientific misconduct, from reading that literature. And I'm confident enough that combination oral antibiotics are the most reasonable LD treatment, in the current absence of good science on the subject, to choose that for myself, if need be.

But it may be that you know more about how this state of affairs came about, than I do. Or maybe you're just a pawn. If you can shed light on that, I'd listen respectfully and salute your superior knowledge. Your story would need to be plausible and consistent with the known historical facts, though. And your leaders would not be happy, so I guess you will keep trying to obfuscate rather than enlighten.

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Wed 21 Dec 2016 20:27
by Henry
Seems to me that tenaciously adhering to the concept of a persistent infection that requires more antibiotic therapy -- for God only knows how long-- in the absence of any evidence to support the existence of such an infection is not something a smart person, let alone a competent scientist, would want to do. Under such circumstances it is no great mystery why the results of 2-tier testing are negative. No infection = no serum antibody. So, the conclusion you and others draw is that the tests are no good, the IDSA recommended treatment is no good because it doesn't work in your situation , and that the whole scientific community is against your version of the truth........... Blah, blah, blah.....

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Wed 21 Dec 2016 20:58
by duncan
Most Lyme patients have evidence, Henry. It's just spurned by a small group - loathe to relinquish power - who preach what a growing number believe are egregiously unrealistic and unreliable metrics and treatments, and turn a deaf ear to the cries of the patients, or worse, disparage them. Sadly, that little group has the ear of many clinicians who haven't the time to learn better. For the time being.

And what happens when someone does satisfy those appalling requirements? They are spurned, too, if they dare to satisfy those criteria after what many feel can be woefully inadequate therapies. This gang adopts an absolutist mindset that is more cult-like than anything remotely resembling Science. Shut down any evidence that the dogma is riddled with flaws, and maintain ranks: That seems to be the rallying cry of relics from the 80's and 90's.

Fortunately, strides are being made from outside that shrinking, aging clique.

Henry, you keep spouting nonsense that you know is wrong: "...in the absence of any evidence..." and "...the whole scientific community is against your version of the truth..." You know these are simply inaccurate. When you declare them, what do you think that does to the credibility of those positions you claim to support?

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Wed 21 Dec 2016 21:13
by Henry
You have no evidence to support what you say, Duncan. None. It's all idle speculation -- sort of like a fairy tale. I think you and Lorima need to say the things you say to convince yourselves, rather than me. But, that's OK. I understand.

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Wed 21 Dec 2016 23:05
by duncan
"Do you ever have deja vu...", Henry?

"Ok campers, rise and shine and don't forget your booties because it's cold out there!"

"Phil? Phil Connors?? Now, don't tell me you don't remember me because I sure as heckfire remember you."

Bing.

Re: Ceftriaxone Pulse Dosing Fails to Eradicate Biofilm-Like Bb Persisters

Posted: Thu 22 Dec 2016 2:17
by Lorima
Henry wrote:You have no evidence to support what you say, Duncan. None. It's all idle speculation -- sort of like a fairy tale. I think you and Lorima need to say the things you say to convince yourselves, rather than me. But, that's OK. I understand.
I think you should just keep repeating that, Henry. Though untrue, at least it sounds dignified. When you go off script, you tend to sound a bit unhinged. (Hint: four animated emojis in a row isn't a good look, in science.)

I do regret that you can’t enlighten us on why the LD field leaders decided in the late 1980s to combat “Lyme anxiety” instead of Lyme disease. Was it just Steere’s (and his students’) wrong meme about the 5-band western blot being definitive, giving the impression that most physician diagnoses of LD were wrong (Sigal 1990)? Was there some public health justification for it, as in, we shouldn’t waste precious antibiotics on this "nuisance disease", as hv808ct calls it? Or was it just to keep patients from bothering doctors with their inconvenient late-stage LD, so difficult to diagnose accurately and treat effectively, while the OspA vaccine was being developed to solve the problem?

But you probably weren’t involved at the time that policy went into effect, and you sound sincere in your inability to grasp the evidence that Steere's science and the IDSA guidelines are invalid, so I guess you wouldn't know.