are reptiles the answer???

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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Fin24
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sat 8 Mar 2008 20:14

are reptiles the answer???

Post by Fin24 » Sat 11 Apr 2009 20:47

its a news article and I have admittedly done not much research or investigation and simply leave you all with this thought:

what IF introducing more reptiles to hotbeds of tick based borrelia et al, would lessen the mammal load of Borrelia and therefore lessen the virulence and transmission to humans of Lyme Disease?? there are ecological risks of course, but maybe even temporarily??

or use caged reptiles the way they used to use partridges and pheasants--many folks let them run in infested areas cleaning up the infestation-- the birds were allowed to raom properties and eat the bugs--using reptiles -letting them access in larger open cages and allowing the ticks access to feed upon them instead of the smaller host mammals vector/host--a dead end vector

re North Carolina, US, talking about less human cases:
Part of the reason for lower numbers could be under-reporting and
under-diagnosis, but it's also a result of the ecology, Davies said.

In the South, the nymphal stage of the black-legged tick tends to feed on
reptiles rather than rodents or small mammals.

Reptiles are not good hosts for the bacteria that causes Lyme disease. As a
result, bacteria don't survive as easily and are less likely to infect
humans, Davies said.

"It's a natural phenomenon that seems to be protecting mammals in this
area," she said.
Megan Davies, a medical epidemiologist at the N.C. Division of Public Health.

from: http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=323526
Published on Saturday, April 11, 2009
Cure evasive for chronic Lyme disease
By Jennifer Calhoun, Staff writer

OneGuest
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed 21 Nov 2007 4:08

Re: are reptiles the answer???

Post by OneGuest » Sat 11 Apr 2009 21:44

I doubt if lizards is the answer in that state.

First, all states with lizard populations would show decreased rates.
I dont see that. NC lizards are next door to VA and Md lizards , and
lyme in both those states
have shown massively increasing rates.

Unfortunately, the DPH epidemiologist may have "political filters" in
her jargon.

That is the state that went after one of the ILADS drs.

That is the state in which a university hosted the CDC (southern)
conference, of vector borne diseases (Duke).

That is the state that was being considered for, and courted CDC, for the bioweapons
facility (located near Duke).

The declining rate of diagnoses may be more directly related to the fear
and ignorance/disinformation factors within the medical community
and medical establishment.

The lyme rates took a nosedive after the drs.' "mock" hearing.

Residents of NC have plastered LN with appeals for help
for finding treating drs., and been told they need to go out of state.
It appears that no GP or ID were of any assistance for those people.

This is not to say that lizards may not play a role, but the only
data on lizards involves the Western Blue Fence Lizard, with work done by
the California researcher (Robert Hale? or something).
That is not generizable to all lizards.

Adding: The NC state office for Blue Cross Blue Shield is in
Durham, which is where Duke is located.

The patient in the article probably needs to look into coinfections.

OneGuest
(edited for lousy grammar and all)

cave76
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sun 12 Aug 2007 2:27

Re: are reptiles the answer???

Post by cave76 » Sat 11 Apr 2009 23:58

I'm assuming, Fin and OG that you're familiar with the Western Fence lizard work that Dr. Robt. Lane has done in the past.

So----- since the Western Fence lizard is really plentiful in Sonoma County CA and that county has zillions of ticks with enough of them full of Bb, then ------- until the lizards are a** high, I doubt if importing more would help.

Of course, since the west coast doesn't have quite the amount of infection that the east coast does---- maybe they ARE doing something? Dunno. I rather think it's because the west coast hasn't received the attention (Lyme-wise) as the east coast until just the last decade or ?? And what isn't looked for isn't found.

(In Mendocino County--- north of Sonoma County, they did find a 41% infection in nymph ticks, one study.)

Fin24
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sat 8 Mar 2008 20:14

Re: are reptiles the answer???

Post by Fin24 » Sun 12 Apr 2009 1:05

whats needed is
seeing IF the cases of mammal borrelia are in fact lower when there are increased reptiles
( seeing if that equated to humans may or may not be germaine--the whole idea is to lower the amounts of borrelia in small mammals and the human cases will drop too)

see IF any other reptiles can host borrelia and sequester it ( not pass it on)

see IF the reptiles harboring borrelia will in fact decrease virulence and prevalence in both mammals and humans ( there was the theory that while inside reptiles the borrelia changes to a less harmful type)

see IF anything can be introduced to the ticks that stops transmission or renders the pathogens they carry less harmful ( never going to get rid of ticks no matter how many deer people insist on hunting)

see what if ANY of the tick pathogens are transmissable vs decreased virulence using reptiles as vectors in addition to Borrelia

anyone need a hobby???

Fin24
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sat 8 Mar 2008 20:14

Re: are reptiles the answer???

Post by Fin24 » Sun 12 Apr 2009 1:08

the western fecne lizard work--wasnt that due to interest in why lizards seem unaffected by infection with borrelia?? or what in theor blood renders them immune??

Im saying forget what lizards have inside to protect them and figure out how to USE them and other reptiles to lessen the chance we humans contract tick illnesses

we may have to abandon hopes to killing borrelia either after we get it or even before, while still in the tick, and simply figure a way to lessen our chances of being infected in the first place

cave76
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sun 12 Aug 2007 2:27

Re: are reptiles the answer???

Post by cave76 » Sun 12 Apr 2009 1:24

It may sound like witchcraft, but Berkeley scientists have found that ticks who feast on the blood of the common western fence lizard are purged of any Lyme disease bacteria hiding in their gut.
http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/sceloporus.html

(First quote I came across. There are many others. I'm too lazy.)

OneGuest
Posts: 300
Joined: Wed 21 Nov 2007 4:08

Re: are reptiles the answer???

Post by OneGuest » Sun 12 Apr 2009 1:32

That was the name, thank you Cave......
ah sweet memory: hail/hale/lane/rain.......took a detour did I!
:D
OG

Fin24
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sat 8 Mar 2008 20:14

Re: are reptiles the answer???

Post by Fin24 » Sun 12 Apr 2009 1:32

but what of the other pathogens in those purged ticks??

[personal non contributory, non substantial commentary removed]

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