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Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 0:27
by Henry
I think I have said enough on this subject.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 0:28
by X-member
Henry:
I think I have said enough on this subject.
Ok.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 0:40
by X-member
I think that "they" (the patients or their physicians) actually was talking about chronic Lyme borreliosis (see the first and second post in this topic).

Edit to add:

And I also give you the same information that I posted earlier in this thread:

"Disseminated and chronic Lyme borreliosis in Norway, 1995 – 2004"

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArt ... icleId=568

This is information from Norway, that show how the definition chronic Lyme borreliosis is used in Norway. It is the same way as EUCALB use it.

And the study (in the first post) is from Norway.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 13:58
by Henry
I remind you that the subject of this discussion is the article on "The phenomenon of "chronic Lyme disease"" and that your comments -- as is usually the case-- have been a senseless distraction. Some people -- like you-- have difficulty seeing the forest because of all the trees.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 15:19
by X-member
I remind you that this study (in the first post) is from Norway.

Edit to add:

I have (most likely) before this study was done, talked to some of the patients (in the Norwegian Lyme forum), and I recommended them not to use this study as "a way" to find out what they suffer from.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 16:02
by Henry
I'm sure they will appreciate and benefit greatly from your "scientific insights" as well as your "unbiased" views.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 16:04
by X-member
Henry:
I'm sure they will appreciate and benefit greatly from your "scientific insights" as well as your "unbiased" views.
No comments.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 16:15
by X-member
From Camp Other's blog (about this study):

http://campother.blogspot.se/2012/03/ph ... -lyme.html
For example, the first patient mentioned in the "unknown causes" category is a 43 year old male who is both IgM and IgG positive for Borrelia burgdorferi antibodies, had 78 weeks of IV antibiotic treatment, and yet is not considered by their definition to have Post Lyme disease syndrome because there was "no documented episode of Lyme disease". This is puzzling - if someone has serological evidence of Lyme disease and they continue to have symptoms - wouldn't this indicate by the most conservative view that the patient at least has Post Lyme disease syndrome (regardless of the controversy over persistent infection)?

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 16:35
by X-member
From an earlier post (again):

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =10#p30386
So, are they talking about "chronic Lyme disease" or are they talking about chronic Lyme borreliosis?
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT0 ... se&rank=20

From the study (on the link above):
Chronic Lyme Borreliosis
So, what this study was about, was to try to find out if some of those patients suffer from a Lyme infection of a long duration/late Lyme disease.

Re: The Phenomenon of "Chronic Lyme Disease"

Posted: Wed 8 Aug 2012 20:50
by tosho
May I interrupt.
Carina, I didn't read all the information about Lyme disease definitions provided by you, but, as to the official approach, are you aware that some scientists use term chronic Lyme disease in exactly same meaning as late Lyme disease? (Not to be confused with chronic Lyme disease understood as a persistent infection after standard ca. 4 weeks treatment)
"Some have classified untreated and treated patients with objective
evidence of late Lyme disease, such as arthritis or encephalopathy,
as having chronic Lyme disease, instead of using
the preferred terminology of late Lyme disease."
http://www.idsociety.org/uploadedFiles/ ... isease.pdf
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