Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borreliosis

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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Spanky
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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by Spanky » Mon 17 Sep 2012 5:12

"Cobwebby":
Which would seem to make it possible to contract Lyme almost instantly from a tick bite in some cases.
Really?

According to whom?

What's the source of that?

Cobwebby
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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by Cobwebby » Mon 17 Sep 2012 5:29

Spanky wrote:"Cobwebby":
Which would seem to make it possible to contract Lyme almost instantly from a tick bite in some cases.
Really?

According to whom?

What's the source of that?
I remember Dr. Willy Burgdorfer’s position made quite clear many years ago in several national and international conferences on tick born diseases (borreliosis) – specifically in his position as co-chair and presentor at several LDF Scientific Conferences. At these conferences, he showed many slides of infected severely ticks in which the entire salivatory apparatus (the entire gut and chelicerate) was infested with the organisms named after him (and Dr. Borel, who, I believe was a French researcher in the last century?).
Dr. Burgdorfer stated it was his opinion based on his work, that infection could and would occur very quickly after attachment (minutes, hours).


Thomas Mather has a paper "Isolation of Borrelia burgdorferi from saliva of the tick vector, Ixodes scapularis"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8195390

Eight out of 14 ticks had cultivable spirochetes (Bb) from their saliva.

Which would seem to make it possible to contract Lyme almost instantly from a tick bite in some cases.
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Spanky
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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by Spanky » Mon 17 Sep 2012 5:32

"Cobwebby":
Which would seem to make it possible to contract Lyme almost instantly from a tick bite in some cases.
(Snip)

Yeah, got all of that...what I am asking is who is responsible for the statement quoted above?

You?

Is that your interpretation of the material that you quoted?

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Spanky
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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by Spanky » Mon 17 Sep 2012 15:45

No answer?

Why not?

Notice that you said that someone could get "Lyme" almost instantaneously:
Which would seem to make it possible to
contract Lyme almost instantly from a tick bite in some cases.
That means: Lyme disease.

Now, assuming all else to be true for the sake of argument...

...why do you think you are sufficiently qualified to render an opinion on whether disease (as opposed to a few bactria) could be transmitted "almost instantaneously"?

Maybe you should stick to telling stale jokes...

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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by X-member » Mon 17 Sep 2012 16:19

From the Swedish recommendations (about borrelia):

http://www.lakemedelsverket.se/malgrupp ... fektioner/

A google translated quote:
Previously it was thought that the infection from ticks to humans were not transferred until 1-2 days after the tick bite, but the new findings suggest that transmission occurs much earlier, possibly after a few hours.

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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by Spanky » Mon 17 Sep 2012 16:34

"Carina":
Previously it was thought that the infection from ticks to humans were not transferred until 1-2 days after the tick bite, but the new findings suggest that transmission occurs much earlier, possibly after a few hours.
Okay?

Again...what's the source for that statement?

(And edited to add):

In addition, Carina, notice this from the IDSA Guidelines:
Although I. scapularis and I. pacificus ticks that have been attached for <36 h are very unlikely to transmit B. burgdorferi infection, I. ricinus ticks in Europe that are infected with B. afzelii appear to transmit infection more rapidly, often within 24 h [78, 79].
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/43/9/1089.full

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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by X-member » Mon 17 Sep 2012 17:02

Spanky:
In addition, Carina, notice this from the IDSA Guidelines:
Although I. scapularis and I. pacificus ticks that have been attached for <36 h are very unlikely to transmit B. burgdorferi infection, I. ricinus ticks in Europe that are infected with B. afzelii appear to transmit infection more rapidly, often within 24 h [78, 79].
Yes, I know Spanky! ;)

This topic is about about chronic borreliosis (the link in the first post is from Germany).

So, it is about European Lyme, isn't it?

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Spanky
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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by Spanky » Mon 17 Sep 2012 17:19

"Carina":

Spanky: "In addition, Carina, notice this from the IDSA Guidelines":

"Although I. scapularis and I. pacificus ticks that have been attached for <36 h are very unlikely to transmit B. burgdorferi infection, I. ricinus ticks in Europe that are infected with B. afzelii appear to transmit infection more rapidly, often within 24 h". [78, 79].

So, it is about European Lyme, isn't it?
What I am TRYING to point out is that in EUROPE...where the quotation about attachment times less than 36 hours comes from...

...there is a known and documented ability for I. ricinus ticks to transmit in less time...

...and that may explain the quotation from Sweden.

I am also suggesting that the quotation may not have any bearing or relevance to the discussion about I. scapularis attachment that you replied to.

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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by X-member » Mon 17 Sep 2012 17:23

If you have a discussion that is NOT about what this topic is about, then maybe you should have the discussion in another topic?

Edit to add:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... &t=94#p221

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Re: Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borrelio

Post by Spanky » Mon 17 Sep 2012 17:24

"Carina":
If you have a discussion that is NOT about what this topic is about, then maybe you should have the discussion in another topic?
What Bagge said.

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