Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of infecti

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
nnecker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by nnecker » Sun 20 Jan 2013 14:21

Now Dr Macdonald,there is no need for you to get mad at me because your buddies Eva and Joe got mixed up with this crook Mirra.I am just the messenger.

All I am, is an average Joe who just googled( Ceo of ALS) and then( Ray Mirra scam),and then all this stuff pops up.That's all I did, I swear.It took me all but a couple of minutes to do this.Now how hard would it be for someone with the intelligence, the experience in the medical field and contacts in the medical business circles,as Joe and Eva have,to figure out if Ray Mirra is a honest person or not.

You can't trust any information coming out of that Lab because Mirra(the owner) would have the final say of what is allowed to come out.The only conclusion you can draw up is that Sapi and Burascano are total incompetents, or as Henry has concluded,they are part of a scam. :o Geeze, this is priceless.

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inmacdonald
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Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by inmacdonald » Sun 20 Jan 2013 17:28

John D Rockefeller in his time was considered a "Robber Baron"
The Rockefeller Family endowed Rockefeller University, a world wide respected laboratory for medical
Research.


So If a Robber Baron founds a Medical Laboratory with an endowment,
By your flawed logic, everything that has come from that Laboratory is
Tarred with the Brush of the Benefactor's Business behaviours. [ do Nobel prizes from Rockefeller
scientists need to be surrendered??]

Makes no sense at all to me.

What do the assembled members of this forum decide about these allegations?

Best,
Alan B. MacDonald Md
Jan 20, 2013

Lorima
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Joined: Mon 29 Oct 2007 20:47

Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by Lorima » Sun 20 Jan 2013 18:32

I thought about Rockefeller too! :)

My impression is, that the arguing about this hasn't been very productive.
It also may be bringing down the tone of the forum.

I think we should all wait for the publication that is said to be coming.

Maybe saying that, would be the best way to end the argument.
"I have to understand the world, you see."
Richard Feynman

nnecker
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:57

Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by nnecker » Mon 21 Jan 2013 15:11

My parents raised me to be a honest person and to try to have honest friends and associates as well.I am sure they would be disappointed in me if I had any connection with a thieves money or business.

It maybe ok for you to associate yourself with thieves Dr Macdonald,but for me, I was raised to stay away from them.

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inmacdonald
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Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by inmacdonald » Mon 21 Jan 2013 15:45

n necker AKA hv808ct:

I have no association with thieves now or ever.
You are free to do a complete background check on me personally and professionally.
Such Services are available on the internet.
If you wish to report me to any authorities of alleged misconduct, I will see you in court.

Bagge
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Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by Bagge » Mon 21 Jan 2013 16:26

inmacdonald wrote:n necker AKA hv808ct:

I have no association with thieves now or ever.
You are free to do a complete background check on me personally and professionally.
Such Services are available on the internet.
If you wish to report me to any authorities of alleged misconduct, I will see you in court.
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =10#p27029

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =50#p26886
My beliefs and the evidence above does notg[sic] yet prove the existence of Biofilms[sic]
of borrelia burgdorferi. At this time there is no published peer reviewed paper
to endorse the existence of borrelia biofilms.

Therapy decisions and discussions of "quackery" are not my responsibility---
My medical pactice [sic]has never involved prescriptions for therapy of any type.

I am a Board Certified Pathologist, certified by the American Board of Pathology.
I am a Laboratory Diagnostician.

It is not polite for you to assert that there is "responsibility" on my part for: ......."harmful "quack" remedies, claimed to be "cyst busters" and "biofilm disolvers[sic]" -- all based on your unproven hypothesis. You share a great deal of responsibility for all this..............."....

I do not have any knowledge about so called " Cyst busters"....

"not my responsibility"; "I do not have any knowledge"
= See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Blinders and earplugs help.
.

nnecker
Posts: 215
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Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by nnecker » Mon 21 Jan 2013 22:39

That's great Dr MacDonald.Now just don't be a hypocrite,by making excuses for your friends who do associate with thieves. :bonk:

Bagge
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Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by Bagge » Sun 3 Feb 2013 0:39

.
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =20#p33915
Camp Other wrote:
nnecker wrote:If you dig into Ray Mirra's background it looks shady.He sold Allion Heathcare, the company that was involved in the HIV black market prescription drug racket. What"s up with that?
His ex wife and business partner Gigi Jordon has made a lot of accusations against him which look very interesting if you look at them in detail.

Unfortunately I can't make the links work,but if you want to look at them go to or google : gigijordonbail.com. Look at bail motion statement of facts section E.There is some interesting stuff in there.

Also google:(gigi jordon wordpress offshore trusts),look at the( pdf 1 section 1 introduction this is an overview of offshore trusts) again,there is some shady stuff going on there.

Now after you read this,I ask you,If just half this stuff is true,would you trust anything coming out of this lab he owns?I know I would not.
Haven't read the bail motion statement or facts - yet - but I will. I see what you mean about the HIV black market prescription drugs... no, don't know what is up with that.

But see, even if Mirra has shady dealings (and the word is "if"), I still have to ask if that would invalidate a culture test.

Refer to: http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 828#p28411

And this paragraph:
Advanced Laboratory Services Inc. (ALSI) has announced a new culture test for Lyme disease. (...) The new test is based on research conducted by Dr. Eva Sapi and colleagues, which CALDA helped fund. Results of the research published earlier this year demonstrated the improved culture method for Borrelia burgdorferi, the agent of Lyme disease, and the technique has recently been corroborated using human blood samples. Larger confirmatory studies of the test are now being pursued. Dr. Joseph Burrascano, a pioneer in the treatment of Lyme disease, consulted with ALSI to help make the test commercially available.

The research done by Sapi et al is supposed to back this culture.
(I also found a patent which might be related to the technology used in the culture, and Mirra's name was NOT on it.) Far as I know, Mirra has nothing to do with the development of the culture test itself in New Haven.
It was also her research that was alleged to back Germ Slayer.

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =20#p34277

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 623#p12509

http://www.casewatch.org/fdawarning/pro ... luwe.shtml
.

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LHCTom
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Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by LHCTom » Sat 16 Feb 2013 20:25

I received the results of the DNA sequencing from ALS. The culture is first examined with a dark field microscope with a monoclonal antibody stain that is specific to Borrelia Burgdorferi. The initial check at 3 weeks was positive but the in-house PCR was negative. They then put my culture in a long term culture and re-checked it 6 weeks later and found my sample was positive by both the monoclonal stain and PCR for Borrelia Burgdorferi. They then sent the sample out of house to Eurofins MWG Operon in Germany for sequencing. The sequencing showed the DNA was from Borrelia. For those who don't trust ALS due to conspiracy theories, now Eurofins must be in on it. A quick search on PubMed shows Eurofins is used by the CDC, NIH and many researchers for sequencing ID of Borrelia and other microbes. A quick check on the Eurofins website shows they offer an overnight DNA sequencing service. I realize the deniars are so bought into their dogma, this will make little difference, but for the open minded folks, the evidence for persistence is slowly emerging. The beauty of science is suppression and avoidance of the truth will eventually fail. The deniars will then crawl under a rock and move on to their next dogma. The deniars are without proof, they just have opinions.

This confirms my 3 positive C6 peptide tests but also shows persistence post treatment.

http://www.operon.com/default.aspx
The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism.

Attributed to William Osler, 1902

nnecker
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Re: Why aren't persisting spirochetes enough evidence of inf

Post by nnecker » Sat 16 Feb 2013 21:16

Dr. Burrascano has disclosed no financial interest in the laboratory, in the Borrelia culture, or in any intellectual property and receives no commissions from the test.

If the test is legit then this makes no sense to me at all.Burrasscano has said that he consulted with ALS, and helped the lab get set up.He has let ALS tie his name to the test and Burrascano has endorsed it and promoted it as well.Burrascano does not practice medicine anymore.

According to Medscape, each year, more than 3.4 million tests for Lyme disease are done in the United States.If this is the game changer Lyme test they claim it is, at $595 a pop,this could conceivably bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenues.Burrascano would then just sit there and watch Mirra fill his pockets with millions and millions of dollars while he just sits there and watches this happen?

This would be one of the dumbest financial moves of all time by Burrascano, and this from a man who asked for the Lyme community to help pay for his legal problems. This whole thing smells in many different ways.

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