Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Lorima
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by Lorima » Sat 23 Feb 2013 18:08

Maybe we should devote a separate thread to Yale's PR strategy, since people seem to be interested in my remarks from last July, repeated out of context in the current thread. They seem to have struck a nerve. My two consecutive posts, in their original context, can be found on page 3 of this thread, from July of last year:  
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 1&start=20 

Yale's PR department, OPAC, appears to be extraordinarily active, going so far as advise their faculty on techniques to hype their results in the media.

http://communications.yale.edu/faculty-staff 

Despite this potential distraction from scholarship, I'm sure there is plenty of good work that takes place at Yale, in other fields.
"I have to understand the world, you see."
Richard Feynman

Bagge
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by Bagge » Sat 23 Feb 2013 18:19

.
inmacdonald wrote:
I  did not publish my blood culture method from the 1980' s
with Joe Burrascano's patients and my modification of Base BSK
The total number of Joe's patients which we
studied together was 76 positive borrelia blood cutures as I recall.

<snip>

Respectfully,
Alan B.MacDonald MD
The 1980's were over 30 years ago. Why did you suppress your research findings for all these years, Dr. MacDonald?
.

RitaA
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by RitaA » Sat 23 Feb 2013 22:07

inmacdonald wrote: We can also agree that the Advanced Labs report has in effect been replicated by a previous group using a different culture medium from the European Community.
Dr. MacDonald,

To truly replicate the results of Sapi et al, wouldn't the same culture medium and identical method need to be used?

While research teams and individuals may have come up with the same (or similar) results in the past, my understanding was that changes to both the culture medium and the very specific process (i.e. detailed steps) used by Sapi's team constituted the "improved" blood culture method. Perhaps that was an incorrect assumption on my part.

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inmacdonald
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by inmacdonald » Thu 28 Feb 2013 15:58


Borrelia blood Cultures - Very Good -Very true- and to some Very Frightening.


Rita is correct in her comments on "repeat-ability of the blood culture studies"

But the point is that SOME will ask why so many positives were documented {?? are there too many to be plausible??]
and to these skeptics , I Say that the European group found 70 blood culture positives from humans
using their medium while Advanced found 72 positives from blood using their medium.

There is a Fallacy, which is generally held to be fact, that it is TOO DIFFICULT TO CULTURE
Borrelia burgdorferi from Blood.


This has now been disproven by two independent groups, using different methods and
isolating either Bb sl or BB ss strains from HUMAN BLOOD.


The "Frightful" facet of this Jewel of Knowledge is:
---Not the fact the Borrelia can be cultured from blood while the erythema migrans lesion is still visible.

---Not the Fact the Borrelia can be cultured from blood while the patient is in Early Lyme Borreliosis

Frightful is the reaction from some camps who
--=understand that Blood cultures are CDC Gold Standard Proof of Lyme borreliosis and cannot be debated
as prima facie evidence of Lyme borreliosis
--=Have repeatedly declared that "post lyme syndrome" or "Chronic Lyme disease" or "Active Chronic LB"
are purely neuroses and are not associated with persistent Living [Blood culturable] Borrelia burgdorferi
in the human body.

Positive Borrelia burgdorferi Blood cultures in Late Chronic post treatment Lyme Borreliosis
mandate that the "frightened camp members" sit down at the table and dine on a meal of Crow.
Respectfully,
Alan B.MacDonald,MD
Feb 28,2013

Lorima
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by Lorima » Thu 28 Feb 2013 16:21

Here's a link that works on my ipad to the study Dr. M is citing:

http://jmm.sgmjournals.org/content/50/10/896.full.pdf

Here's the abstract from PubMed (but the link to full text on this PubMed page doesn't work for me).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11599739
J Med Microbiol. 2001 Oct;50(10):896-901.
Genotypic and phenotypic characterisation of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato strains isolated from human blood.
Ruzić-Sabljić E, Arnez M, Lotric-Furlan S, Maraspin V, Cimperman J, Strle F.
Source
Institute of Microbiology and Immunology, Medical Faculty Ljubljana, Slovenia.
Abstract
Lyme borreliosis often presents initially with erythema migrans. Borreliae may disseminate from the primary skin lesion, and different organs and systems could be affected. Borrelia strains were isolated from blood of 70 patients with Lyme borreliosis, including 10 patients from whom borreliae were also isolated from skin. The aim of the present study was to characterise the isolates with regard to their phenotypic and genotypic characteristics. Borreliae were cultivated in MKP medium. Species identification and plasmid profiles were determined by pulsed-field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) and protein profiles by SDS-PAGE. Digestion of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato DNA showed 63 (90%) B. afzelii Mla1 and 7 (10%) B. garinii Mlg2. No B. burgdorferi sensu stricto were isolated. Borreliae were isolated from both skin and blood of 10 patients, nine pairs of isolates were identical: seven B. afzelii and two B. garinii. B. afzelii was isolated from the skin and B. garinii from blood of the tenth patient. All but one isolate possessed at least one large plasmid and varying numbers of smaller plasmids. Eight (11.4%) of 70 isolates possessed an unusual plasmid profile (2 of 63 B. afzelii and 6 of 7 B. garinii). Borreliae differed in their protein profiles. OspA and OspB proteins were expressed by all B. afzelii isolates; 85.7% of B. garinii isolates expressed OspA and 71.4% expressed OspB. OspC was expressed by 65% of B. afzelii isolates and all B. garinii isolates. The ratios of B. afzelii and B. garinii isolated from blood and skin were similar. These results do not support the hypothesis that B. garinii has a higher propensity for haematogenous dissemination than B. afzelii. Antigen diversity as well as species and plasmid heterogeneity could play a role in the pathogenesis of the infection, suggesting distinctive strain organotropism.
PMID: 11599739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text
"I have to understand the world, you see."
Richard Feynman

duncan
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by duncan » Thu 28 Feb 2013 16:58

Alan, where does the paper demonstrate sensitivity in this new culture mechanism for Late Chronic Post Treatment Lyme Borreliosis? I apologize if I missed that.

X-member
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by X-member » Thu 28 Feb 2013 17:26

I found this in the text (from the link in the first post):
All patients who participated in this study had not been exposed to antibiotics for a minimum of 4 weeks prior to blood sample collection [33] [34].

duncan
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by duncan » Thu 28 Feb 2013 17:32

Thanks, Carina. Yep, saw that. So one can infer that post treatment is included. But that is always a dangerous gambit. I think it needs to be stated, unambiguously, and perhaps it is, and I've simply missed it.

TicksSuck
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by TicksSuck » Thu 28 Feb 2013 19:03

All of these patients had a clinical presentation consistent with Lyme disease and their illness was confirmed by laboratory evidence of infection using the Center for Disease Control (CDC) recommended, 2-tiered serological method, thus they all satisfied the strict CDC surveillance case definition for Lyme disease
Notice that the stage of the infection was also not mentioned!

hv808ct
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Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method

Post by hv808ct » Thu 28 Feb 2013 22:40

Re: Improved Borrelia burgdorferi Blood culture Method
by inmacdonald » Thu 28 Feb 2013 15:58
Borrelia blood Cultures - Very Good -Very true- and to some Very Frightening.

Positive Borrelia burgdorferi Blood cultures in Late Chronic post treatment Lyme Borreliosis
mandate that the "frightened camp members" sit down at the table and dine on a meal of Crow.
No one is sitting down to a meal of crow…especially after having spoiled their appetites with a big plate of BS.

That plate full of BS was well described in last month’s Medscape.Com article on Burrascano, Sapi and the mysterious Advanced Laboratory Services (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/778482). MacDonald’s continued shilling for this crap offers false hope to people who think they have an infection, and millions of dollars to businessmen eager to convince them that they do, which then will put thousands of dollars into the pockets of Lyme quacks willing to treat those “now positively diagnosed.”
There is a Fallacy, which is generally held to be fact, that it is TOO DIFFICULT TO CULTURE
Borrelia burgdorferi from Blood.
No, it’s not too difficult to culture B. burgdorferi. It’s just not relevant—right now—to clinical practice.
Frightful is the reaction from some camps who
--=understand that Blood cultures are CDC Gold Standard Proof of Lyme borreliosis and cannot be debated as prima facie evidence of Lyme borreliosis
--=Have repeatedly declared that "post lyme syndrome" or "Chronic Lyme disease" or "Active Chronic LB" are purely neuroses and are not associated with persistent Living [Blood culturable] Borrelia burgdorferi in the human body.
Looking around, I don’t see many frightened members of the medical and scientific communities. Though I suppose many of us might be worried that some incautious individual will mistake laboratory contamination for a positive blood culture; or declare misdiagnosed illnesses, post-infection tissue damage, or serious psychiatric conditions for mere “neuroses”; or ignore 30+ years of clinical research on the non-infectious nature of post-Lyme sequelae.

“Respectfully” declining dinner. Avian or otherwise.

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