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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 1:05
by Martian
X-member,

The following doesn't sound like simply late lyme disease:
Undertreated infections will inevitably resurface, usually as chronic Lyme, with its tremendous problems of morbidity and difficulty with diagnosis and treatment and high cost in every sense of the word.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 1:15
by X-member
Do you mean that an early infection that have been undertreated and have become a late infection maybe are more "hard-to-treat"?

I don't know.

Edit to add:

But it is an interesting question. Is it a difference?

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 1:22
by Margherita
The Italians seem to be less sophisticated:

just an example:
Borreliosi cronica o malattia di Lyme
Translation: Chronic Borreliosis or Lyme disease

http://www.mediconadir.it/?q=node/12

Maybe because of the following reasoning:

A Borrelia infection which is not diagnosed on time or effectively treated becomes a disease, i.e.: Lyme disease.
So Lyme disease is a chronic Borrelia infection. So a chronic Borrelia infection is synonym for Lyme disease.

From a certain point of view it makes sense, doesn't it?

Nice website though.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 1:27
by X-member
A Lyme infection is an infection that can last for a long time = become chronic/late.

That is (most likely) what the Italians mean.

And this is not correct:
So a chronic Borrelia infection is synonym for Lyme disease.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 1:49
by Margherita
@X-member,

As a matter of fact, they do not distinguish acute, early and late Lyme disease. In this case their definition of Lyme disease is a progressive/untreated infection, called chronic Borreliosis.

I suppose you're right when saying it's not correct. But I'm wondering what difference al those different definitions make for lymepatients.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 1:53
by X-member
Maybe I misunderstood the information from Italy. Perhaps they actually think that chronic borreliosis is called Lyme disease in US?

And they do distinguish "acute, early and late Lyme disease".

Here is what they say when it comes to late/chronic Lyme:
The disease progresses over months and even years following the infecting tick bite may include headaches , arthritis pain with localized swelling in the joints, cardiac abnormalities , disorder of the central nervous system up to mental disorders such as cognitive disorientation .

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 2:09
by X-member
Margherita wrote:
But I'm wondering what difference al those different definitions make for lymepatients.
Maybe some of them would like to find the correct treatment studies?

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 2:23
by Margherita
Maybe some of them would like to find the correct treatment studies?
Yes, that would be a nice purpose X-member. And that's why it's such a big pity there's still so much disagreement.

Wish you a good night ;)

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 2:40
by X-member
I have posted information about the treatment studies for late European Lyme disease (B Afzelii) here:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =20#p37715

A quote:
There are no studies that say something about the length of treatment.

Edit to add:

Camp Other posted some interesting info in the thread below:

Studies on cases with chronic [late] Lyme disease?

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 260#p37843

A quote (Logigian et al study):
Six months after treatment, more than one third of the patients either had relapsed or were no better. In addition, more than half had previously received antibiotic therapy thought to be appropriate for their stage of disease and still had progression of the illness.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Mar 2014 23:05
by Margherita
Hi X-Member,

Thanks for your additional information.

you wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood the information from Italy. Perhaps they actually think that chronic borreliosis is called Lyme disease in US?
Yes, I suppose they do. The definition 'Lyme disease' is almost completely unknown among the Italian citizens and even a lot of doctors there still do not know what Lyme disease is (at least, in the area I use to stay). Borreliosis is their standard definition. I was just curious to see what were the developments in Italy with regard to the above definitions and the site I referred to was meant as an example.

With regard to the quote of Logigian et al.:
Six months after treatment, more than one third of the patients either had relapsed or were no better. In addition, more than half had previously received antibiotic therapy thought to be appropriate for their stage of disease and still had progression of the illness.
very real :(