Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Thu 6 Mar 2014 6:06

It is not so very complicated.

US:

Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Europe:

Chronic Lyme borreliosis = Late Lyme borreliosis


Edit to add:

Or (in Europe):

Chronic borreliosis = Late borreliosis

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Tue 13 May 2014 0:21

From Sweden.

Lyme Neuroborreliosis
Diagnosis and Treatment


Daniel Bremell

(Dissertation, 2014)

https://gupea.ub.gu.se/bitstream/2077/3 ... 5202_1.pdf

A quote:
Originally, chronic Lyme disease (or chronic Lyme borreliosis or chronic Lyme neuroborreliosis, the terms are used interchangeably), denoted Lyme borreliosis with a duration of symptoms of more than six months, i.e. what is now more commonly called late LB [66,67].

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Tue 17 Jun 2014 23:10

From the thread below:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 393#p38557

A quote:
While many aspects of Lyme disease are well accepted by the mainstream medical community, considerable controversy surrounds “chronic Lyme disease”, an ill-defined diagnosis that some clinicians give to patients with alternative diagnoses or medically unexplained symptom complexes.
I like to point out that many, many people around the world actually has been given the correct diagnosis.

I have been diagnosed with chronic Lyme BORRELIOSIS (by a Swedish physician) and I am also diagnosed with immune deficiency (by a Swedish physician).


Edit to add (since the quote above came from a thread that was about co-infections):

http://www.onehealth.se/ohs/node/79

Dr Sven Bergström, Sweden:
.....how quiescent bacteria infections can be reactivated by subsequent infections with other pathogens including parasites.

Martian
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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by Martian » Wed 18 Jun 2014 2:21

Martian wrote:X-member,

The following doesn't sound like simply late lyme disease:
Undertreated infections will inevitably resurface, usually as chronic Lyme, with its tremendous problems of morbidity and difficulty with diagnosis and treatment and high cost in every sense of the word.
X-member wrote:Do you mean that an early infection that have been undertreated and have become a late infection maybe are more "hard-to-treat"?

I don't know.

Edit to add:

But it is an interesting question. Is it a difference?
I mean that, based on this and other writings, apparently for "camp ILADS" the term "chronic Lyme" doesn't mean the same as "late Lyme". It seems with "chronic Lyme" they specifically mean a form of Lyme disease that is difficult to treat and according to them requires long-term treatment with no guarantee of a cure. So "camp ILADS" is also to blame for the confusion and controversy with the term "chronic Lyme disease".

It is best to use the term "Late Lyme disease" because it is unambiguous and not controversial.

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Wed 18 Jun 2014 2:55

I wrote:
I have been diagnosed with chronic Lyme BORRELIOSIS....
Before I got this diagnosis I have been given (by Swedish physicians) several ABX-treatments (10-14 days Doxy, 21 days Amoxicillin, 2 months Amoxicillin) but I got my symptoms back over and over again (I had typical signs of an active, ongoing late Lyme infection after treatment). So, in fact when I got my diagnosis I actually suffered from chronic, PERSISTENT Lyme borreliosis.

The "complication" in my case is that I have an immune deficiency, but it is possible that I also have one or more other infections too. I test positive for Chlamydophila pneumoniae but the Swedish physicians think that this is not an active infection.

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Wed 18 Jun 2014 3:35

From an earlier post by Martian:
The following doesn't sound like simply late lyme disease:
Undertreated infections will inevitably resurface, usually as chronic Lyme....
Well, if it takes more than 6-12 months to "diagnose" the undertreated acute (= early) infection, then it will become (with time) a late (or chronic) infection.

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Wed 18 Jun 2014 8:24

ILADS (Burrascano):

http://www.ilads.org/lyme/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

A quote:
A very important issue is the definition of “Chronic Lyme Disease”. Based on my clinical data and the latest
published information, I offer the following definition. To be said to have chronic LB*, these three criteria must be
present:

1. Illness present for at least one year (this is approximately when immune breakdown attains clinically
significant levels).
2. Have persistent major neurologic involvement (such as encephalitis/encephalopathy, meningitis, etc.)
or active arthritic manifestations (active synovitis).
3. Still have active infection with B. burgdorferi (Bb), regardless of prior antibiotic therapy (if any).

* Chronic Lyme Borreliosis.

Note! ACA (acrodermatitis), a common presentation when it comes to CLB in Europe is not mentioned.

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by Martian » Wed 18 Jun 2014 12:41

X-member wrote:From an earlier post by Martian:
The following doesn't sound like simply late lyme disease:
Undertreated infections will inevitably resurface, usually as chronic Lyme....
Well, if it takes more than 6-12 months to "diagnose" the undertreated acute (= early) infection, then it will become (with time) a late (or chronic) infection.
Do you get what I am saying with my previous post?

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Wed 18 Jun 2014 18:03

Martian, did you get what I was saying with my posts below?:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =20#p38564

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =20#p38566

The treatment every patient need when they are diagnosed with late (or chronic) Lyme borreliosis can vary from case to case.

Edit to add:

A quote (from the post below):

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =20#p38564
....considerable controversy surrounds “chronic Lyme disease”, an ill-defined diagnosis....
I have no problem to understand what ILADS mean with “chronic Lyme disease” they talk about (as you can see) chronic Lyme borreliosis with a duration of the INFECTION (with or without prior antibiotic therapy) for more than one year.

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Wed 18 Jun 2014 19:37

The US definition of late (stage) Lyme disease (CDC):

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 247#p37834
Late disseminated stage (months-to-years post-tick bite)
EUCALB:s (Europe) definition of late/chronic Lyme borreliosis:
Late Lyme borreliosis.
This uncommon stage presents several years after the initial infection and may involve the joints (Lyme arthritis), skin (acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans) or, rarely, chronic neurological syndromes.
And ILADS definition of chronic Lyme borreliosis:
Illness present for at least one year (this is approximately when immune breakdown attains clinically significant levels).

And if I understand it correct, the infection are more "hard-to-treat" the longer a patient have suffered from it, and it can also become more complicated (latent infections could have been activated and/or new infections could have been added "with time").

My question: Can treatment studies made on cases that suffer from CDC:s definition of late (stage) Lyme disease be used on cases suffer from EUCALB:s definition of late Lyme borrelios?

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