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Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Nov 2014 16:53
by X-member
Lyme Disease Clinical Presentation (emedicine/medscape)

Two quotes:
It is also important to consider co-infection by other organisms transmitted by the same tick bite, in areas where those are endemic. Co-infection with Ehrlichia species and Babesia microti are reported with increased frequency; in some studies, co-infection occurs in as many as 10-15% of patients with Lyme disease.

Stage 3 Lyme disease
Late or chronic Lyme disease refers to manifestations that occur months to years after the initial infection
, sometimes after a period of latency. Signs and symptoms of chronic Lyme disease are primarily rheumatologic and neurologic. Acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans, the cutaneous feature of late-stage Lyme disease, is found almost exclusively in European patients.
Lyme Disease (ALDF)
Late Stage:

Arthritis (pain/swelling) of one or two large joints

Disabling neurological disorders (disorientation; confusion; dizziness; short-term memory loss; inability to concentrate, finish sentences or follow conversations; mental "fog")

Numbness in arms/hands or legs/feet
Note! ACA (acrodermatitis) is not mentioned.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Wed 5 Nov 2014 17:16
by duncan
I would suggest the ALDF doesn't mention ACA because that manifestation is usually found in Europe, and the ALDF is probably more focused on the United States and maybe Canada, where ACA is considered rare.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Thu 6 Nov 2014 15:47
by X-member
Henry wrote (in the thread/post below): ... 552#p40100
It proves that you just can not diagnose chronic Lyme disease based on symptoms alone......
And I think that this is possible if the patient have ACA (acrodermatitis). But ACA is sometimes not mentioned in information from US.

Some more information about chronic Lyme disease:

Lyme Disease Clinical Presentation

A quote:
Most patients presenting with late disease do not have a history of erythema migrans, because the rash typically leads to earlier treatment, which prevents the development of late disease. However, other manifestations of the disease may coexist or may have occurred in the past. Thus, a history of Bell palsy, aseptic meningitis, arthritis, acral paresthesias or dysesthesias (from peripheral neuropathy), or cognitive dysfunction (from CNS involvement) may be diagnostically useful.
Edit to add:

I have a history of multiple EM, Bells palsy (not completely gone) and Bannwarth's syndrome. All my borrelia tests has been negative.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Fri 12 Dec 2014 14:48
by X-member

A quote:
If not treated the majority of patients progress from an early to a late stage.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Fri 3 Apr 2015 17:39
by X-member
Öystein Brorson, Norway say:

A google translated quote:
Patients who have been sick for more than one year may sometimes need several months or repeated treatments to get rid of all the symptoms. ... mitatoren/

So, maybe Burrascanos definition of late/chronic borreliosis is better than the Scandinavian definition? ... 247#p37754

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Tue 5 May 2015 14:41
by X-member
I think that this belong in this thread too.

Does Chronic Lyme really exists ... f=7&t=5778

I found this link in the thread above: ... ally-exist

Some quotes:
Certainly the infection can persist for years in untreated patients. That qualifies as "chronic." There is no question that chronic Lyme disease exists as part of the natural history of Lyme disease.
If you're asking whether the infectious agent can persist after what is normally a curative dose of antibiotics, the answer is also "of course." A "normally curative dose" isn't going to be the right dose for everyone.
If you are asking whether ill effects of the initial infection can persist after treatment eradicates the organism, the answer is still yes.
If you're asking whether people who get normally curative doses of antibiotics can continue to have wacky symptoms with no trace of the infectious agent nor objectively demonstrable pathology -- well, the answer is again "of course," but ... it is not (and cannot) be proven that their symptoms are due to the Lyme infection because, as noted, there is no objectively demonstrable pathology.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Thu 27 Aug 2015 17:04
by X-member

Chronic Lyme disease: misconceptions and challenges for patient management

Two quotes:
The debate about “chronic Lyme disease” provides a remarkable example of how heated a conversation can become when people use words differently. Contested issues largely stem from very different understandings of what terms mean.
Untreated infection, particularly with joint involvement*, can be chronic, lasting years
* ACA (acrodermatitis) is more common in Europe.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Mon 31 Aug 2015 15:58
by X-member
One more quote from the link in the post above:
The medical/scientific community uses the term “chronic Lyme disease” to describe individuals with objective evidence of longstanding ongoing infection....

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Mon 7 Sep 2015 15:59
by X-member
Borrelia burgdorferi (Lyme Disease)
Eugene D. Shapiro, MD* ... 2/500.full

A quote:
There is substantial evidence that there is no such entity as chronic Lyme disease. Indeed, there is not even a case definition for chronic Lyme disease.
This is the definition of chronic (Lyme) borreliosis that is still (2015!) used in both Sweden and Norway (and in many other European countries):

Lyme Neuroborreliosis Diagnosis and Treatment
Daniel Bremell, Sweden, dissertation 2014

A quote:
The term chronic Lyme disease can have different meanings depending on the opinion of the person concerned. Originally, chronic Lyme disease (chronic Lyme borreliosis or chronic Lyme neuroborreliosis, the terms are used interchangeably), denoted Lyme borreliosis with a duration of symptoms of more than six months, i.e. what is now more commonly called late LB.

Re: Chronic Lyme disease = Late Lyme disease

Posted: Thu 8 Oct 2015 17:23
by X-member
Vaccine against lyme disease
Publication date 26 January 1988

A quote:
Spirochetes are introduced into the host at the site of the tick bite and this is also the location of the initial characteristic skin lesion, erythema chronicum migrans (ECM). A systemic illness ensues due to the lymphatic and hematogenous spread of B. burgdorferi. The early phase of the illness often consists of the ECM, headache, fatigue, muscle and joint aches, stiff neck and chills and fever. This phase of the disease may be followed by neurologic, joint or cardiac abnormalities. The chronic forms of the disease such as arthritis (joint involvement), acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans (skin involvement), and Bannwart's syndrome (neurological involvement) may last for months to years and are associated with the persistence of the spirochete. A case of maternal-fetal transmission of B. burgdorferi resulting in neonatal death has been reported. Domestic animals such as the dog also develop arthritis and lameness to this tick-borne infection. For every symptomatic infection, there is at least one asymptomatic infection. Lyme disease is presently the most commonly reported tick-borne disease in the United States.

The infection may be treated at any time with antibiotics such as penicillin, erythromycin, tetracycline, and ceftriaxone. Once infection has occurred, however, the drugs may not purge the host of the spirochete but may only act to control the chronic forms of the disease. Complications such as arthritis and fatigue may continue for several years after diagnosis and treatment.