Never was nor will be one only infected with Borrelia

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by phantasm » Sat 18 Oct 2014 0:42

Do you know that house dust mites crawl on you while your sleeping? Especially if you have a pet because they live off of the shed dander so that type of home is perfect for them.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16337462

Margherita
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu 27 Sep 2012 18:22

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by Margherita » Sat 18 Oct 2014 0:51

Hi Duncan,
Is anything in medicine absolute?


No Duncan, it isn't and I understand your point of view. But I think that as long as people who are bitten by a tick are tested exclusively for B.Burgdorferi (so not for co-infections), there will never be any scientific proof that ticks do also transmit other pathogens to humans. So it'ld be great if from now on co-infections were automatically included when testing.

Hi phantasm,

About Bartonella:

A study, effected in 1999 by the National Institue of Health in my country resulted as follows:

45% of ticks was infected with Erlichia
13% of ticks was infected with Borrelia
70% of ticks was infected with Bartonella !!


(besides, 60% of the ticks along the coast were infected with Ricketsia Helvetica).

Please note: Bartonella Quintana and Bartonella Henselae were NOT detected in the ticks.
So this means that these ticks were infected with other Bartonella strains. But when patients are testing for Bartonella, the only strain mentioned on the test form is the Henselae strain. So as matter of fact, in accordance with what you wrote earlier, at this point I'm wondering what's the use of testing when there's a big chance I'm dealing with on of the other Bartonella strains that cannot be detected!
Last edited by Margherita on Sat 18 Oct 2014 0:59, edited 1 time in total.

phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by phantasm » Sat 18 Oct 2014 0:57

Well sure ticks are an issue , especially since they are so small. But I was stung by a flying insect that looked like a black ladybug and got a huge Erythema Migrans rash but didn't know what it was at the time so many other insects are involved in this , it just makes sense since they feed off the same host animals. I posted a lot of links showing other Borrelia carrying insects but they were removed.

Heck even your Hamburger can give you an infection.

http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/521711/2 ... EGdih2hqSo


Yum!

And I'll go back to the sensitivity of the test you mentioned , 70% of ticks were infected with Bartonella, as far as the test's can tell from the mapped DNA available. It also would be very enlightening to test for all Rhizobiales order bacteria , not just Bartonella.
Last edited by phantasm on Sat 18 Oct 2014 1:03, edited 1 time in total.

X-member
Posts: 8504
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by X-member » Sat 18 Oct 2014 1:03

phantasm, do you claim that everyone that get a borrelia infection have a complicated infection with one or more other infections that also need to be treated?

Or are you talking about those cases (about 15% of all borrelia cases) that need a better/longer treatment?

phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by phantasm » Sat 18 Oct 2014 1:11

X-member wrote:phantasm, do you claim that everyone that get a borrelia infection have a complicated infection with one or more other infections that also need to be treated?

Or are you talking about those cases (about 15% of all borrelia cases) that need a better/longer treatment?

If you read the scientific literature available that is exactly the case. What I am referring to is that all these infections work together in symbiosis not just the ordained "Lyme co-infections" so whatever you have it is a co-infection and cohabitates biofilms and tumors, it's how they roll you're their dinner and that's why they're there. Treating these infections can be done with small molecule broad spectrum treatments however. Antibiotics won't do anything but make the situation worse.

Your 15% suggestion is erroneous and would generally be considered buy those truly knowing to be foundational to a false narrative. You shouldn't present that as fact because it isn't even close.
Last edited by phantasm on Sat 18 Oct 2014 23:23, edited 1 time in total.

duncan
Posts: 1370
Joined: Wed 5 Sep 2012 18:48

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by duncan » Sat 18 Oct 2014 1:22

Margherita, I agree with you. I've been using a Lyme specialist for so long, I have grown used to always being tested for co-infections. In fact, I am annoyed if a particular pathogen or even test type isn't included.

Sigh.

It's easy to forget that isn't how most of the world works.

X-member
Posts: 8504
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by X-member » Sat 18 Oct 2014 1:25

phantasm wrote:
Your 15% suggestion is erroneous and would generally be considered buy those truly knowing to be foundational to a false narrative. You shouldn't present that as fact because it isn't even close.
Those facts can be found on the following link (page 12):

Diagnosis and Treatment of Lyme borreliosis

http://www.borreliose-gesellschaft.de/T ... elines.pdf

Edit to add: 5-10 % of all the borrelia cases have a late (= chronic) infection when they are diagnosed.

10 % + (about) 5 % = 15 %.

X-member
Posts: 8504
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by X-member » Sat 18 Oct 2014 1:44

I asked (earlier)
phantasm, do you claim that everyone that get a borrelia infection have a complicated infection with one or more other infections that also need to be treated?
phantasm replied:
If you read the scientific literature available that is exactly the case. Treating these infections can be done with small molecule broad spectrum treatments however. Antibiotics won't do anything but make the situation worse.
Can you prove this (especially the part about abx) with scientific studies?

phantasm
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun 24 Aug 2014 22:42

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by phantasm » Sat 18 Oct 2014 1:50

http://www.borreliose-gesellschaft.de/T ... elines.pdf

Well your evidence is impressive but they are essentially an extension of ILADS and are still struggling with this conceptually just as ILADS is. They even acknowledge that.

"This guideline, “Diagnosis and Treatment of Lyme borreliosis” was prepared with great care.
However, no liability whatever can be accepted for its accuracy, especially in relation to dosages, either by the authors or by the German Borreliosis Society."

So what your calling "facts" aren't really facts at all especially since this extension of the pharmaceutical industry calls them guidelines.

I'm going out to see a bluegrass band and have a couple beers now..............TTYL
Last edited by phantasm on Sat 18 Oct 2014 23:25, edited 1 time in total.

X-member
Posts: 8504
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: B. burgdorferi infection and immune responses

Post by X-member » Sat 18 Oct 2014 2:17

phantasm, real facts = scientific studies.

I still agree with admin on that.

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