Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Martian
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Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by Martian » Sat 13 Dec 2014 17:50

Due to advancing insights I now declare the following:


Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

X-member
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Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Sat 13 Dec 2014 17:55

In that case I don't recommend this forum for European people.

Edit to add:

http://benthamopen.com/toneuj/articles/ ... TONEUJ.pdf

A quote:
Importantly, the existence of late Lyme disease is approved by all official guidelines in the U.S., Canada and
Europe. The terms “late” and “chronic” Lyme disease, as in syphilis, are synonymous and define tertiary Lyme disease. The use of “chronic” Lyme disease as a different entity is inaccurate and confusing.

Martian
Posts: 1944
Joined: Thu 26 Jul 2007 18:29
Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by Martian » Sat 13 Dec 2014 19:34

X-member,

And who are to blame for hijacking the term "chronic Lyme disease"? (giving it another meaning than it originally had world wide, namely more or less a synonym for "late-stage Lyme disease").

X-member
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Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Sat 13 Dec 2014 19:41

Martian wrote:
And who are to blame for hijacking the term "chronic Lyme disease"?
This I would really like to know.

Who on earth started this mess?

X-member
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Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Mon 15 Dec 2014 17:14

Lyme Disease Clinical Presentation

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/330178-clinical

A quote:
Late or chronic Lyme disease refers to manifestations that occur months to years after the initial infection, sometimes after a period of latency. Signs and symptoms of chronic Lyme disease are primarily rheumatologic and neurologic. Acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans, the cutaneous feature of late-stage Lyme disease, is found almost exclusively in European patients.
It is only (what I know of) in US (and perhaps in UK) that some other definitions of "chronic Lyme" are used.

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Mon 15 Dec 2014 19:22

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =90#p40918

A quote:
Activists and their quack enablers believe chronic LD is a chronic infection....
A Swedish professor (I hope no one call him a quack) say:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 323#p40747
The first is a local infection around the tick bite, the next step is the bacteria more widespread in the body and it goes into the blood and to different types of tissues like the heart, nervous system and joints. The third step is what we can call a chronic or persistent illness - which is basically a rare condition, ie there are only a few patients that get chronic Lyme disease. If we treat with antibiotics during the first two phases will, in most cases, the infection disappear. But if you do not treat it can of course go through all three phases and be just chronic.
Late Lyme disease/borreliosis and chronic Lyme disease/borreliosis = stage 3.

Be chronic = be late (last for a long time)

X-member
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Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Mon 15 Dec 2014 19:35

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =90#p40918

A quote:
Activists and their quack enablers believe chronic LD is a chronic infection that cannot be detected; it can only be taken on faith.
Professor Sven Bergström et al say:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 323#p40906
Late stages of borrelia Lyme disease infections may be difficult to diagnose because of unspecific symptoms and unreliable laboratory tests, being too unspecific or insensitive.
Do we have quacks in Sweden?

duncan
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Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by duncan » Mon 15 Dec 2014 19:45

I always preferred the European interpretation of late stage and chronic Lyme.

But as every one knows, each coveys a somewhat different meaning in the U.S.

My personal interpretation of chronic Lyme is late stage lyme that does not respond to conventional treatment in the standard time frame. In the U.S., that has mutated into PTLDS.

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Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by X-member » Mon 15 Dec 2014 20:43

Duncan wrote (about "chronic Lyme"):
In the U.S., that has mutated into PTLDS.
I think it is better that US people that talk about unexplained remaining symptoms after treatment without any signs of an active, ongoing infection, do as CDC say:

http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/postLDS/
Although often called "chronic Lyme disease," this condition is properly known as "Post-treatment Lyme Disease Syndrome" (PTLDS).
And I think that those people that mean that some patients are misdiagnosed, make that clear instead of mocking (or misinform) a lot of sick people and physicians in Europe.

duncan
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Re: Chronic Lyme disease ≠ Late Lyme disease

Post by duncan » Mon 15 Dec 2014 20:53

If I am understanding you correctly, X-member, I must disagree about what is meant by PTLDS. You appear to think that it refers just people who have received treatment and who have residual symptoms, but who have no signs of active infection. That is not true. PTLDS includes ALL who have received treatment that continue to have symptoms, even if they have lab signs that support a diagnosis of ongoing active infection.

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