live blood microscopy

Medical topics with questions, information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Sciucca1
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri 4 Sep 2015 14:21

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by Sciucca1 » Tue 15 Sep 2015 20:37

Yes of course, my post was incorrect. I think confirmation is via dna analysis, or serology. It just give me some clues to Keep searching. In fact I did not perform this to get diagnosed...
Best
Jean

X-member
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by X-member » Tue 15 Sep 2015 22:53

hv808ct wrote earlier:
If you think you’ve had an active bloodstream infection for 14 years or so, relax, it’s clearly not hurting you—not anymore than the aging process will. On the other hand, you do have a medical problem, and it has little to do with darkfield microscopy and bacteremia. You need to talk with someone in the field of psychiatry before you actually do give yourself an infection. And a real infection isn’t going to take 14 years to run its course.
http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =10#p42854

I bought a darkfield microscope, took pictures of objects in my blood. I asked a skilled microbiologist to look at those pictures, and this microbiologist confirmed that I had taken pictures of borrelia bacteria. And then, after I have been sick for many years, I (finally) got the correct diagnosis by a Swedish physician (also based on symptoms of course). This Swedish microbiologist never said anything about that borrelia bacteria can not be found in blood.

In Sweden physicians know that a borrelia infection (if not treated) can last for many years.

Edit to add:

I forgot to say that when I took those pictures, I had been on abx treatment for more than 2 years.

Sciucca1
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri 4 Sep 2015 14:21

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by Sciucca1 » Wed 16 Sep 2015 2:54

Hi, Thanks for your important feedback. What you did makes a lot sense to me, and it seems that we did very similar things. When I first met the Lyme doctor 10 years ago, a French specialist, he said not to expect a cure, just an improvement, because we can not get rid of this bacteria. Now, ten years latter, I just wanted to know if it was still possible to see the bacteria in blood, and especially the bacterial load, after long courses of antibiotics. I advocate that I was surprised by the number of "borrelia-like" organisms seen in the blood, which deeply correlates with my health.
I would be glad meeting a microbiogist confirming these findings. Wait and see.
Once against, Thanks for your feedback
Best
Jean

Martian
Posts: 1944
Joined: Thu 26 Jul 2007 18:29
Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by Martian » Wed 16 Sep 2015 3:18

X-member wrote:I bought a darkfield microscope, took pictures of objects in my blood. I asked a skilled microbiologist to look at those pictures, and this microbiologist confirmed that I had taken pictures of borrelia bacteria. And then, after I have been sick for many years, I (finally) got the correct diagnosis by a Swedish physician (also based on symptoms of course). This Swedish microbiologist never said anything about that borrelia bacteria can not be found in blood.

In Sweden physicians know that a borrelia infection (if not treated) can last for many years.

Edit to add:

I forgot to say that when I took those pictures, I had been on abx treatment for more than 2 years.
We cannot rely on anecdotal patient reports, we need scientific studies.

Sciucca1
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri 4 Sep 2015 14:21

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by Sciucca1 » Wed 16 Sep 2015 9:39

Hi Martian,

I guess your statements, are both correct and uncorrect, and this is very interesting. What do you call scientific studies ? Studies made by scientists published in a peer review with reviewers ? I can quote you a lot of studies that are false but published. Some of them have even been used to justify political choices. The Rogoff study in economics is the most striking evidence of that. It was false from the very beginning to the end. But it was quoted by politicians. When you submit to a review and then get the report from the referees, sometimes, this is pure joke, they don t even read...I have submitted to peer reviews in econometrics, and had reports......pure joke. So, as a scientist, I advocate that I don t really believe in this kind of validation. Once I submitted to a top five review on the field of Financial econometrics. Referee said, you should do this instead. From a theoretical point of view he was uncorrect. With my co author we entered the game, did what he asked for and.....get published. I am not to proud of that. Just to say that scientific validation by publication is very tricky. To get published, you have to be in the mainstream, in the editors' networks and so on. Taking an other example, everyone is quoting E. Sapi. But some work is published in an open review, so according to some standard, it has no scientific validation. Is she correct when talking about the effect of drugs? That is a question I am asking you.
Now when you say that we can't rely on anedoctical research, I guess you are correct, and we need more case studies, made scientists from the beginning to the end. I strongly agree with you. In my case, I did it just to see if something appeared in blood, after more than ten years of antibiotics. For me the answer is yes, and what I did was just to report this on this forum. Just say I found this. Any clues of what it is? That s all. It brings some clues to go on. Either it is still borrelia, and marcolides are not for me the good drugs, or there is an other bacteria, and I will search for by asking micro biologists.
Darkfield microscopy is not that hard to perform, especially when you learn with a well-trained person. What is difficult is 1) to have nice slides with your blood smear, 2) Interpret, because sometimes you eyes see just what they want to see, and since it is your own blood you have to stay, say neutral. And there are things you don t know or regognize. Here is the huge limit of this kind of job. You need validation, and cross validation.
I really do believe that microscopy, made by a highly qualified biologist, is a good way to get diagnosed, especially for lyme that exibit very specific forms as strings of pearls.
If I can reach some confirmation with microbiologist, I will post again.
Best
Jean

X-member
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by X-member » Wed 16 Sep 2015 15:51

Martian wrote:
We cannot rely on anecdotal patient reports, we need scientific studies.
I must have "forgot" to do a scientific study when I needed a correct diagnosis. :roll:

Martian
Posts: 1944
Joined: Thu 26 Jul 2007 18:29
Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by Martian » Wed 16 Sep 2015 16:10

X-member wrote:Martian wrote:
We cannot rely on anecdotal patient reports, we need scientific studies.
I must have "forgot" to do a scientific study when I needed a correct diagnosis. :roll:
So, you give me the rolling eyes treatment...

Martian wrote:
X-member wrote:I bought a darkfield microscope, took pictures of objects in my blood. I asked a skilled microbiologist to look at those pictures, and this microbiologist confirmed that I had taken pictures of borrelia bacteria. And then, after I have been sick for many years, I (finally) got the correct diagnosis by a Swedish physician (also based on symptoms of course). This Swedish microbiologist never said anything about that borrelia bacteria can not be found in blood.

In Sweden physicians know that a borrelia infection (if not treated) can last for many years.

Edit to add:

I forgot to say that when I took those pictures, I had been on abx treatment for more than 2 years.
We cannot rely on anecdotal patient reports, we need scientific studies.
Let me add this:

I notice your use of "confirmed" and "correct diagnosis". It must feel comfortable to be so certain of your case. But can you really be so certain or are you fooling yourself? Where's your healthy bit of doubt that keeps you open-minded to other possibilities?

X-member
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by X-member » Wed 16 Sep 2015 16:18

Martian wrote:
Where's your healthy bit of doubt that keeps you open-minded to other possibilities?
I have had: Multiple EM, Bannwarth's syndrome, Bell's palsy (still visible), good (and proven!) effect from abx-treatment. It was a Swedish physician that told me it could be borreliosis in 2006. I bought the microscope 2009 when Swedish physicians didn't want to give me the correct diagnosis.

Martian
Posts: 1944
Joined: Thu 26 Jul 2007 18:29
Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by Martian » Wed 16 Sep 2015 16:22

X-member wrote:Martian wrote:
Where's your healthy bit of doubt that keeps you open-minded to other possibilities?
I have had: Multiple EM, Bannwarth's syndrome, Bell's palsy (still visible), good (and proven!) effect from abx-treatment. It was a Swedish physician that told me it could be borreliosis in 2006. I bought the microscope 2009 when Swedish physicians didn't want to give me the correct diagnosis.
What about the results of your antibody tests?

X-member
Posts: 7602
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: live blood microscopy

Post by X-member » Wed 16 Sep 2015 16:32

Martian wrote:
What about the results of your antibody tests?
In 2005 I was also diagnosed with an immunodeficiency (I have both low IgG and IgM).

Dako´s ELISA (2003): negative

Diasorin Liaison ELISA (2005): negative

Diasorin Liaison ELISA (2007): negative

WB (2007): borderline

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