Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

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Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

Post by dlf » Thu 6 Aug 2015 5:51

HHS Working Group on Lyme and Other Tickborne Diseases - Lyme disease vaccine webinar video available from:

Lyme disease vaccine

A Lyme disease vaccine is no longer available. The vaccine manufacturer discontinued production in 2002, citing insufficient consumer demand. Protection provided by this vaccine diminishes over time. Therefore, if you received the Lyme disease vaccine before 2002, you are probably no longer protected against Lyme disease.

The HHS Working Group on Lyme and Other Tickborne Diseases presents: Vaccines for Lyme Disease – Past, present, and future

Welcome and Introduction – Dr. Ben Beard
Why we need a vaccine for Lyme disease – Dr. Stanley Plotkin
Potential vaccine strategies and targets for Lyme disease – Dr. Rich Marconi
A critical appraisal of LYMErix and lessons learned – Dr. Robert Aronowitz
Progress toward a second generation Lyme vaccine – Dr. Nina Wressnigg
Summary and conclusions – Dr. Larry Madoff

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Re: Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

Post by duncan » Thu 6 Aug 2015 15:03

Thank you for posting this, dlf.

I am in the middle of watching, and already have questions for these researchers. The one that leaps to mind is concerning the chimera vaccine: If they run with a variation of the OspA/OspC, will OspC - band 23 - be dropped from the list of 10?

I wasn't asking you, necessarily, dlf; I just wanted to write down my thought before I forgot it.

Again, thank you for the link. Fascinating stuff.

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Re: Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

Post by nnecker » Fri 7 Aug 2015 20:33

Looks like a new vaccine is going to be the next big thing in the Lyme world.What I can't understand is why all the anti-vaxers over at Lymenut.kook( ... 124202;p=0 ) are not trying to ban Dr Richard T. Marconi from speaking at the LDA Conference along with Dr Tim Brooks. ... ic/3/35305

Author Topic: Disgraceful Invitation to Leading Denialist to Address LDA Conference!
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I was appalled to learn that Dr. Tim Brooks, Lyme czar at Public Health England has been invited to be a speaker at the Lyme Disease Association/Columbia conference in USA later this year.

Dr. Brooks is our foremost Lyme Denialist here in the UK.

Heading up all Lyme serology testing from his lair at RIPL (the country's biowarfare research centre at Porton Down), Brooks has continued the policies of his predecessor Dr Sue O'Connell in following the CDC/IDSA approach to the letter, ensuring that there is ZERO recognition of chronic Lyme in Britain and ZERO help for children and adult sufferers.

In addition, under Brooks' regime even basic public health education is so appalling that GPs even in the most hyperendemic areas are unable recognise Lyme Disease symptoms and signs.

A report submitted by Dr Tim Brooks to the Health and Safety Executive in the UK was crammed full of fallacies and spoke about patients in highly offensive terms.

Brooks suggested that all those not meeting the extremely narrow criteria, based on CDC surveillance criteria, should be referred to the notorious psychiatrist Simon Wessely, whose theories that ME/CFS and Gulf War Syndrome were nothing but "illness behaviour" did so much harm to sufferers of those conditions.

Dr. Wessely's theories were directly responsible for an incident in which a 12 year old boy in the UK, suffering from severe weakness due to ME/CFS, was thrown into a swimming pool by "therapists" to "cure" his "psychological problem".

The boy sank and had to be rescued from drowning.

It is forbidden to do such things to prisoners of war under the Geneva Convention, yet because of Wessely an extremely ill child was forced to undergo this unspeakable act of torture.

This is the healthcare "professional" to whom Dr Brooks believes all chronic Lyme patients in Britain should be referred.

Dr Tim Brooks is no different from Allen Steere, Gary Wormser or Barbara Johnson in his approach. He is arguably even more extreme on some points.

It is absolutely inappropriate that he be invited to a Lyme Conference held to raise awareness and provide benefits to patients.

The only acceptable reason to invite Dr Brooks would be as part of a debate, where his deeply flawed approach could be directly exposed for the extreme harm it causes to patients. That is not the case in this conference, where he has been invited to address doctors on the subject of Lyme Disease in Britain.

Please let the Lyme Disease Association know of your concern at this highly inappropriate invitation by joining the dozens of others who have signed the petition below:
2015 LDA Conference Agenda:

4:20 − 5:05 PM

Richard T. Marconi, PhD
"Chimeric Linear Epitope Based Vaccines for Lyme Disease & Other Tick-borne Diseases: Progress Report on The Road to a New Human Vaccine"

Maybe Duncan might want to weigh in on this.
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Thanks poppy.

The discussion panel is 15 minutes. Little substantive is likely to emerge from it, and we don't even know if Brooks is on it.

He has 35 minutes, possibly unchallenged. I am not so sure this makes us look as balanced, as it makes him appear fearless and undaunted by false rhetoric, and willing to take the fight to the purveyers of false information.

Even if his half-hour is non-inflammatory, who benefits?

These things are seldom a win-win proposition.

Regardless, I doubt if this can be undone without fallout.
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Re: Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

Post by duncan » Fri 7 Aug 2015 20:54

Weigh in on what, nnecker?

The number of things you don't understand? No, thank you.

The fact that I post on several Forums? Where ever I can address issues with TBD's - either learn something or contribute something - I potentially could be a member. I am a member of several Forums. Several. S.E.V.E.R.A.L. If this bothers you...I'm somehow ok with that. I think I will join another. 8-)

Why the focus is on one person you seem to understand (but maybe not), and not another? Sorry, I have no interest in trying to fathom what you can or cannot understand.

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Re: Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

Post by ChronicLyme19 » Sun 9 Aug 2015 19:17

Oh wow, I am finding this video very very helpful in my understanding of how Lyme vaccines have and can be designed. To summarize the first two presentations I have gotten through so far…

Plotkin went through the history of the old Lymerix vaccine produced by SmithKline Beecham, which was available from 1998-2002 and was designed to target OspA (transmission blocking type). It was pulled off the market supposedly due to low demand, but also probable because of the class action lawsuits that it was triggering adverse effects in people, because of the hLFA-1 epitope. He didn’t seem to think it was conclusively prove or disproven if the hLFA-1 epitope concerns was really scientifically founded or not, but either way the new vaccines will probably avoid that epitope for if not scientific reasons or at least fear of more lawsuits. Studies Plotkin referred to from the manufacturer supposedly showed the vaccine was 80% effective after two shots. The data he showed to prove the efficacy didn’t seem very detailed to me and it wasn’t readily apparent how they really knew if the vaccine worked. We all know that they love to narrow the definition of Lyme to just the first few weeks and pick and choose symptom sets, so I’m not entirely convinced the first vaccine actually did work. Has anyone actually dug into the SKB data? What metrics were used to determine the vaccine was really effective? He also mentioned two other companies Baxter and Valneva are both working on OspA targeted vaccines without the hLFA-1 epitope.

Marconi's talk started off explaining an alternative method of making vaccines using chimeritopes, which seems to be you pick and choose the epitopes/regions of the target antigen you want and combine them all into one new protein, which your body will then recognize and produce an antigen against each of the epitopes that the chimeritope protein is comprised of.

So if I understand this correctly, it’s like saying one bacteria strain has a shirt on with different words, like aardvark, beaver, cat, dog in blue and another bacteria strain has all those same words in red. So you take the words aardvark and cat and put them onto a new shirt in red and blue and show it to your friend. Your friend will now recognize everyone that has aardvark and cat on their shirt in those colors.

Marconi said that because there are about 30 different types of OspC and 6 for OspA, with each strain of Lyme showing one of each of those types, and multiple strains possibly being in one tick, that you take the top types of each and you combine them to make a vaccine. This seems like a very logical way of going about it, but what if you get one of those less common strains OspC or OspA types that they didn’t cover?

Marconi then showed studies in mice who were vaccinated using this chimeritope method, with the two selected linear epitopes alpha-helix 5 (H5) and loop 5 (L5) from an OspC type. It did indeed make the mice produce bactericidal antibodies, which they showed by taking the antibody serum out of the mouse, adding compliment, and testing it on Lyme showing that version of OspC. Awesome…

I find that statement really interesting because a lot of us with persistant Lyme do produce antibodies towards OspC and OspA, but they don’t seem to be effective in clearing the infection. In fact many times the IgM for OspA (31 kDa) and OspC (23 kDa) are the most common, or only bands people with chronic lyme produce. I wonder what makes them ineffective in clearing the infection. Are they against a strain with a different OspC type? In the petri dish studies Marconi did certainly seemed that all that was needed to kill the bacteria were the right antibodies against the specific OspC/OspA type. Or perhaps the problem in the chronic lymers is that we don’t have enough compliment? Besides having major IgG and minor IgM and IgA deficiencies, I know my C3 and C4 were also deficient.

Marconi also went into a second set of studies where they made three chimeritopes based on the two selected linear epitopes alpha-helix 5 and loop 5 from 9 different OspC types, some with linkers between the epitopes, and some without, and then some with the epitope order changed. They did they same test for vaccine with the dogs as they did the mice. They took the antibodies the dog produced in response to the vaccine out of the dogs, added compliments, and tested the antibody killing activity on Lyme in a Petri dish and it seemed to work.
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They then studied dogs that had antibodies from the chimerotope and against OspA against lesion development. They found the best combination was with both the OspC chimeritope and OspA antibodies and that no lesions were found in those dogs. Marconi then goes into discussing chimeritope development for OspA, just as they did OspC. They found an OspA linear epitope that killed 85% of the bacteria compared to 100% at the full OspA protein antibody response.

Marconi DOES state he has conflicts of interest as research support, consultant, and or advisory board for global lyme diagnostics, zoetis and or zoonotic health.
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So again, my question is, just focusing on the subpopulation of PTLDS patients that their symptoms are from ongoing infection, why do they still have it, when many have IgM antibodies against both OspA and OspC? If it works so well in dogs and mice, why is it not working in these people? Is it defective antibodies? Wrong Osp antibody types? Not enough antibodies? IgMs instead of IgGs? Other missing immune components like compliments? Or perhaps antibodies against both OspA and OspC are adequate to prevent an infection, but not sufficient to clear an established infection somehow?
Half of what you are taught is incorrect, but which half? What if there's another half missing?

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Re: Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

Post by migs » Mon 10 Aug 2015 20:38

Very interesting video...thanks for posting. I was always looking for news on the Abbott vaccine as I was going to use it for treatment to keep my antibodies high.

chroniclyme19 I think u are wanting vaccination as treatment, and to me it sounds like it should work. They discussed many times the clearance of the borrelia by OspA but mentioned that protein was the one expressed when borrelia was right from the tick gut. It sounded like OspC was the target for the later developing infection.

I would have to listen again as it was very late for me but the approaches mentioned were described mostly as vaccines that should be active against a lingering infection.

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Re: Vaccines for Lyme Disease – webinar video

Post by ChronicLyme19 » Mon 10 Aug 2015 23:58

A treatment would be nice, but the point I was trying to make was that if many of us who have persistent lyme infections already make OspC and OspA antibodies, how are we sure this vaccine will work? I'm just skeptical that even if you have antibodies from a vaccine, Lyme might be sneaky enough to still get around your immune defenses. Perhaps a vaccine like this, as Duncan alluded to, could make the problem worse. People with the vaccine would be seen as completely immune to getting the infection, which might not be the case as other factors might be in play besides just antibody production...
Half of what you are taught is incorrect, but which half? What if there's another half missing?

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