Lyme stages and definitions

General or non-medical topics with information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by Henry » Mon 2 Jan 2012 21:17

Campother: I agree with you. To get Lyme disease, you must have been exposed to Ixodes ticks, the ONLY way that Lyme disease is transmitted to humans. If you don't have an EM, which is definitive and diagnostic for Lyme disease, then the serology must be positive in order to have a valid diagnosis. Otherwise, the physician is only guessing. It takes time for the infection to porogress to the point that antibodies can be detected in blood. Since sufficient amounts of serum antibodies are not going to be detectable until about 30 days or more after infection, most patients will be seronegative until 30 days or beyond, although low levels of IgM antibody might be detectable.

Caution must be used in interpreting the results of diagnostic tests based on the detection of IgM and IgG antibodies. IgM antibody appears early during the course of infection and is about 1,000 times more reactive than IgG antibody that appears later; that is because IgM antibody is pentavalent, whereas IgG antibody is divalent. Tests based on the detection of IgM antibodies are unreliable when used beyond 30 days after infection; because of their increased reactivity (binding strength) they can react with very minor determinants present in irrelevant bacterial antigens. That increases the probability of obtaining a false positive test results and can result in misdiagnosis. If one has a Borrelia infection of long duration and is not immunosuppressed, significant amounts of IgG antibody surely will be detectable by an IgG Western blot as per the criteria established by the CDC and FDA. There is no doubt about that.

I submit that many of those who claim to have chronic Lyme disease are unable to fulfill the 3 conditions you mention. In fact, although Klempner screened more than 1,000 patients for his clinical trials on the efficacy of extended antibiotic therapy for the treatment of chronic Lyme disease, about 92% of them had to be excluded from the study because there was nothing in their medical history to indicate that they ever had an active infection of Lyme disease in the first place (as evidenced by either an EM rash or positive serological test). These are the kinds of people that I am talking about.

User avatar
Spanky
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun 20 Jul 2008 19:40

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by Spanky » Mon 2 Jan 2012 21:21

"Camp Other":

I want answers to the same questions you have. A study was completed this past summer in Norway that was supposed to characterize patients with chronic Lyme disease/PLDS. I think the NIH/NIAID has funded similar studies before.

That Norweigan observational study: http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01151150
Thanks, CO.

(And yeah, I remember your previously asking me what research I would like to see done and I gave you some smarta**ed answer, as, I admit, is my custom, about how I was not an 'uber-geek' and not my department). :D

But I would think that a general survey of patient populations might reveal the frequency of types of complaints...and that this could be used to see if there is a common thread, or not...and possibly provide further directions for additional research?

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by Henry » Mon 2 Jan 2012 21:23

Spanky: I agree with you. My main concern is that, despite what I've said and indicated, there are MANY LLMDs who recommend continued extended antibiotic and/or other approached to get rid of a persistent infection. It is the policy of ILADS -- and even stated in their guidelines-- to treat with antibiotics until the symptoms disappear. That is just bad medicine. Antibiotics are not going to heal tissue damage are they? It is not only a waste of time and money, but may even be harmful.

X-member
Posts: 4108
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by X-member » Mon 2 Jan 2012 21:25

I have now started a new topic:

"Tick associated poly-organic syndrome"

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... f=6&t=3584

I will add more info in this topic later!

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by Henry » Mon 2 Jan 2012 21:32

Carina: I simply must ask -- do you have any other life beyond this website? You seem rather obsessed with each and every issue. It is a pity that you seem to have nothing else to do but constantly monitor this site. It is sad.

X-member
Posts: 4108
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by X-member » Mon 2 Jan 2012 21:43

Henry wrote:
Carina: I simply must ask -- do you have any other life beyond this website? You seem rather obsessed with each and every issue. It is a pity that you seem to have nothing else to do but constantly monitor this site. It is sad.
Last edited by X-member on Mon 2 Jan 2012 22:57, edited 1 time in total.

Henry
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu 10 Nov 2011 18:49

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by Henry » Mon 2 Jan 2012 22:16

Carina: I have joined the site in November to see if I can better educate some people about Lyme disease. Although I don't post as often as you do, I have received sufficient positive feedback (via private -email messages) to encourage me to continue posting on selected topics-- for a while longer.

X-member
Posts: 4108
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by X-member » Mon 2 Jan 2012 23:15

Henry wrote:
Carina: I have joined the site in November to see if I can better educate some people about Lyme disease. Although I don't post as often as you do, I have received sufficient positive feedback (via private -email messages) to encourage me to continue posting on selected topics-- for a while longer.
No comments!

X-member
Posts: 4108
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by X-member » Tue 3 Jan 2012 0:27

Removed!
Last edited by X-member on Wed 21 Mar 2012 13:53, edited 3 times in total.

X-member
Posts: 4108
Joined: Mon 30 Jul 2007 18:18

Re: Lyme stages and definitions

Post by X-member » Wed 18 Jul 2012 16:28

Some information from Germany:

http://derma.akademos.de/pdfdown/akadem ... ea6887.pdf

A quote (more to read on the link):
Clinical presentation and pathophysiology

Borrelia-burgdorferi infections usually proceed in three
phases (Hassler 2006; previously used “staging”methods
are not useful
because they were symptom-oriented and
did not give enough weight to pathophysiology).

Post Reply