Jessica Bernstein: Check Adam Lanza for Lyme disease

General or non-medical topics with information and discussion related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
Bagge
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Re: Jessica Bernstein: Check Adam Lanza for Lyme disease

Post by Bagge » Mon 8 Apr 2013 3:54

Camp Other wrote: And there are some patients who will not publicly state an LLMD is under investigation by a medical board for some accusation because they don't want the person who is either a genuinely bad apple or who is perhaps falsely accused to potentially make other LLMDs look bad through guilt by association.
In speaking of guilt by association, one should recall that those providers go through the same training program. The one where patients are solicited to pay for the tuition of those providers. Others claim to be trained by the top "LLMDs" in the country.
Which some parties in the media have periodically done, such as Trine Tsouderos (who left the Chicago Tribune, and now works for Big Pharma).
In speaking of Big Pharma, one should recall that Burrascano is partnered with some affluent and well-known Big Pharma businesses.

A simple search of ProPublica will yield that several well-known "LLMDs" have been receiving perks from Big Pharma dating back at least several years. Those are some expensive lunches. Still others are receiving perks from Big Nutraceutical.
" http://projects.propublica.org/docdolla ... []=&period[]= "

The "Big Pharma" shill talk is bunk and meant to persuade and fool those who are uninformed, naive, or perhaps too ill to do their own research and learn otherwise.
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Camp Other
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Re: Jessica Bernstein: Check Adam Lanza for Lyme disease

Post by Camp Other » Mon 8 Apr 2013 7:09

Camp Other wrote: And there are some patients who will not publicly state an LLMD is under investigation by a medical board for some accusation because they don't want the person who is either a genuinely bad apple or who is perhaps falsely accused to potentially make other LLMDs look bad through guilt by association.
Bagge wrote: In speaking of guilt by association, one should recall that those providers go through the same training program. The one where patients are solicited to pay for the tuition of those providers. Others claim to be trained by the top "LLMDs" in the country.
And? What do doctors learn in these programs? Do you know?

And when I mentioned LLMDs, by the way, I didn't just mean ILADS LLMDs. I meant any LLMD. There are LLMDs who are not members of ILADS. Dr. Sam Donta is considered an LLMD and is not a member of ILADS. There are others.
Camp Other wrote:Which some parties in the media have periodically done, such as Trine Tsouderos (who left the Chicago Tribune, and now works for Big Pharma).
Bagge wrote: In speaking of Big Pharma, one should recall that Burrascano is partnered with some affluent and well-known Big Pharma businesses.

A simple search of ProPublica will yield that several well-known "LLMDs" have been receiving perks from Big Pharma dating back at least several years. Those are some expensive lunches. Still others are receiving perks from Big Nutraceutical.
" http://projects.propublica.org/docdolla ... []=&period[]= "

The "Big Pharma" shill talk is bunk and meant to persuade and fool those who are uninformed, naive, or perhaps too ill to do their own research and learn otherwise.
.
I knew about this ages ago, and I don't support any doctor's decision - LLMD or not - to take these perks from Big Pharma.

LLMDs are not the only doctors who have engaged in this practice. If you plug in the name of a number of different doctors in different fields you will see that MANY doctors have engaged in this practice and it has been widely accepted in the medical community for a long time.

Bagge
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Joined: Wed 19 Oct 2011 19:49

Re: Jessica Bernstein: Check Adam Lanza for Lyme disease

Post by Bagge » Mon 8 Apr 2013 15:33

Camp Other wrote:
Bagge wrote: In speaking of Big Pharma, one should recall that Burrascano is partnered with some affluent and well-known Big Pharma businesses.

A simple search of ProPublica will yield that several well-known "LLMDs" have been receiving perks from Big Pharma dating back at least several years. Those are some expensive lunches. Still others are receiving perks from Big Nutraceutical.
" http://projects.propublica.org/docdolla ... []=&period[]= "

The "Big Pharma" shill talk is bunk and meant to persuade and fool those who are uninformed, naive, or perhaps too ill to do their own research and learn otherwise.
.
I knew about this ages ago, and I don't support any doctor's decision - LLMD or not - to take these perks from Big Pharma.
This is important to note because accusations of being in the pockets of Big Pharma have historically been one of the cornerstone manipulation techniques used to pit patients against any non-"LLMD" physician, i.e., a provider approved by the association and it's related society.

Accusations, very expensive accusations have been waged against the IDSA, when in fact it appears as if the Lyme disease association approved physician-founders are equally if not more in bed with Big Pharma and BIg Nutraceutical. It's just another patient manipulation technique, such as in this propaganda filled statement made to patients about the IDSA panel "...they have been busted for having serious conflicts of interest related to the insurance industry and pharmaceutical companies." Their intent appears to have been to manipulate patients towards their approved providers, despite any quality of care considerations, extreme health risks involved in their unproven treatments, or alleged illegal activities and convictions. It's about bringing in the patients to a particular group of providers. It's their business plan.
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Camp Other
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Re: Jessica Bernstein: Check Adam Lanza for Lyme disease

Post by Camp Other » Mon 8 Apr 2013 17:48

Bagge wrote: In speaking of Big Pharma, one should recall that Burrascano is partnered with some affluent and well-known Big Pharma businesses.

A simple search of ProPublica will yield that several well-known "LLMDs" have been receiving perks from Big Pharma dating back at least several years. Those are some expensive lunches. Still others are receiving perks from Big Nutraceutical.
" http://projects.propublica.org/docdolla ... []=&period[]= "

The "Big Pharma" shill talk is bunk and meant to persuade and fool those who are uninformed, naive, or perhaps too ill to do their own research and learn otherwise.
.
Camp Other wrote: I knew about this ages ago, and I don't support any doctor's decision - LLMD or not - to take these perks from Big Pharma.
Bagge wrote: This is important to note because accusations of being in the pockets of Big Pharma have historically been one of the cornerstone manipulation techniques used to pit patients against any non-"LLMD" physician, i.e., a provider approved by the association and it's related society.
This is true. Though a number of patients have also seen it as a small part of a systemwide problem with how modern medicine works. Why do doctors accept these perks from pharmaceutical companies? Are they just greedy, or do they genuinely need the perks including speakers' fees when promoting a drug to other doctors? Has it become more expensive to be a doctor, and run one's practice without accepting such engagements?

It's becoming less acceptable over time to do this sort of work for Big Pharma, and more patients are asking for accountability and transparency regarding these practices - but for a long time it's been considered business as usual and as I said before, many doctors have done it from different backgrounds.

See, for example: http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_22870 ... -from-drug
Bagge wrote: Accusations, very expensive accusations have been waged against the IDSA, when in fact it appears as if the Lyme disease association approved physician-founders are equally if not more in bed with Big Pharma and BIg Nutraceutical. It's just another patient manipulation technique, such as in this propaganda filled statement made to patients about the IDSA panel "...they have been busted for having serious conflicts of interest related to the insurance industry and pharmaceutical companies."
I see where you're going with this, you're pointing out what you view as being hypocritical behavior. Perhaps it is, but I think patients are going to overlook some of their doctors engaging in promoting certain drugs and/or supplements for a number of reasons and continue to point out the IDSA's conflicts for two main reasons:

1) Some consider their doctor's practice of taking up these perks as minor issues compared to what they view as the major issue of the IDSA not offering them guidelines for effective treatment or not to have done more to have them be diagnosed and treated earlier when Lyme disease is easier to treat;
2) Some consider the fact that a doctor who sells supplements out of their own office and makes a profit from their sales to be no big deal - some even think they deserve that extra profit because the doctor has been so helpful to them.

In other words, some patients don't care that their doctors are doing this. And if they find it to be somewhat iffy, they point to bigger problems on the IDSA's side and know which side they'd rather be on when it comes to treatment.

A third but weaker reason ties into the fact that many different doctors have engaged in this practice of taking Pharma's perks, it's been considered common practice and only in recent years has it been questioned by the public, public health advocacy groups, and institutions.

Some patients may have known about it in the past, but realized many doctors already did it and shrugged it off. This might change over time - just as it has in a broader way in society.
Bagge wrote: Their intent appears to have been to manipulate patients towards their approved providers, [...] It's about bringing in the patients to a particular group of providers. It's their business plan.
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How do you know what their intent was? I'm curious to know how you can determine the intent. And if was their intent to (manipulate may be too strong a word here?) encourage patients to see certain providers, how is that any different from what anyone else does?

There are doctors who have accepted Big Pharma payouts and perks for years who are considered top of their field, work at major universities, and are highly rated by both their colleagues and their patients for their medical care.

Every one of their colleagues and their university medical centers promoted these doctors and encouraged referrals to their doctors. Every one of these institutions promoted their medical centers full of doctors who have accepted payouts from Big Pharma, knowing or suspecting they may have accepted such payouts.

I myself have been a captive audience of my own insurance company and family physician. I get "encouraged" to see certain providers every single time my family doctor offers me a referral to one of his "chosen" specialist providers who is "within network". Every family doctor has their "favorites" they refer to everyone for a given specialty. Why is that?

As for this part, which I axed out from above:
Bagge wrote:despite any quality of care considerations, extreme health risks involved in their unproven treatments, or alleged illegal activities and convictions.
I hate to say it Bagge, but I feel this way about some of the care I received under my insurer's plan, from doctors within my network who have nothing to do with LLMDs, ILADS, or the diagnosis of Lyme disease in general. Overtesting me with CT scans and giving me unnecessary tests in order to avoid potential lawsuits and make a profit, to me, doesn't sound like good quality of care and came with extreme health risks at points.

Any care I received from an LLMD put me at far less risk from what I experienced relative to other things I've had to undergo from other medical professionals, including surgery - which to me, I don't know about you - going under general and surgery itself is riskier than taking oral antibiotics for several months. And the quality of care I received from my LLMD was very thorough; tried to rule out other conditions and also treated non-tickborne related conditions.

And now we come to the moment we've all been waiting for: Awarding Bagge.

Congratulations, Bagge! You've just won the Lymenet Europe Imelda Marcos Commenting Award! :woohoo:

Camp Other
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Re: Jessica Bernstein: Check Adam Lanza for Lyme disease

Post by Camp Other » Mon 8 Apr 2013 18:15

Here is what I and other patients see as being a major problem...

From http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... 140#p35566

To quote Lorima:

"...we have to recognize that there is a problem here. The "bad guys" are people who are pretending that there isn't a problem: that the 2T test is fine, that 2 weeks of low-dose doxycycline reliably cures LD, that late neurological LD is rare, that the patients, caregivers and advocates are the ones who are deluded, "unethical", and "anti-science".

I don't think anyone is now capable of "providing safe, reliable, and reproducible remedies for those who suffer from chronic Lyme disease". That is because LD science, which might have provided those remedies, has been stagnating for decades. It is true that had it progressed, it might not have provided answers yet - look at the war on cancer. But I think we would have had a better chance. Look at HIV/AIDS.

Good doctors for Lyme patients don't make promises they can't keep, or abandon their patients; they help their patients understand their options, and make difficult decisions. Those are my "good people".

Bagge, look at that second paragraph very carefully, and think about it.

Bagge
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Re: Jessica Bernstein: Check Adam Lanza for Lyme disease

Post by Bagge » Thu 11 Apr 2013 21:31

Martian wrote:So, here we have Sponaugle, yet another so-called "llmd". I guess the ILADS would be pleased to have him as a speaker at an ILADS conference to talk about Borrelia detoxing and how Lyme patients are walking time bombs.
Instead, It seems he had a friend speak on his behalf at the recent Lyme Research Alliance's Gala.
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