Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

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X-member
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Fri 7 Dec 2012 14:49

Dorothy wrote (earlier):
Do you see this, CO? Any idea what it may be? I see hundreds of them in the blood that has high spirochetal loads (pathogenic or otherwise).
I am referring to the organism that has many 'legs' like an octopus.
Dr MacDonald has posted some images here:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... der#p26736

dorothy de kok
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Joined: Fri 2 Nov 2012 15:03

Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by dorothy de kok » Fri 7 Dec 2012 15:51

Thanks Carina and CO.

I have enough donuts for the three of us, and anyone who might care to join.

Camp Other said:
Far as I know, spirochetes which enter red blood cells are associated with relapsing fever spirochetes. I don't recall reading that B. burgdorferi does it, too. I may need to look that up to confirm, though.
I have wondered about RF, given that some symptoms fit the RF profile. But an infection that continues for 19 years???
We need to get a final word on the intracellular question for LD borrelia. (Why is Mattman not recognised as an authority amongst everyone? I think her work is brilliant, out of the box and challenges the way infectious diseases are viewed). I believe it is intracellular. I see them in large numbers after 'popping' the RBC's. And not just in one person's blood. I guess PCR is going to clear up the mystery.

I will also look for info on the intracellular question - someone must have an irrefutable paper somewhere
- that proves it either way.
Here are some pics of borrelia attached to rings - same thing as what you are finding, Carina and CO???

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vwdinyl2zgxmh ... relia.pptx

Coffee pretty good here.

X-member
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Fri 7 Dec 2012 18:33

Dorothy wrote:
Here are some pics of borrelia attached to rings - same thing as what you are finding, Carina and CO???
Yes, it is the same thing (s) that I find in my blood.

And I think that professor Laane (see an earlier post for a film on YouTube) has taken pictures of this too.

Very good pictures, Dorothy! 8-)

Trillis
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by Trillis » Sun 16 Dec 2012 20:22

A microscope at home to look at blood.
- Is a second hand "Zeiss Standard" microscope a good choice?

dorothy de kok
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by dorothy de kok » Tue 18 Dec 2012 6:22

Trillis

A minimum requirement would be 1000X with oil. But even then, you might not see much. But it is a good place to start. A phase contrast is the best bet for viewing spiro's.

Microscopy is NOT diagnosis. At best it is a fun way to spend your time while on your short course of antibiotics that will quickly cure your chronic lyme. :roll:
At worst, you will just be more confused than before, wondering what is a microorganism and what is artefact.

But I still recommend it too anyone who has the inclination - and a microscope.

Dorothy

Camp Other
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by Camp Other » Wed 19 Dec 2012 1:55

dorothy de kok wrote:Trillis

A minimum requirement would be 1000X with oil. But even then, you might not see much. But it is a good place to start. A phase contrast is the best bet for viewing spiro's.

Microscopy is NOT diagnosis. At best it is a fun way to spend your time while on your short course of antibiotics that will quickly cure your chronic lyme. :roll:
At worst, you will just be more confused than before, wondering what is a microorganism and what is artefact.

But I still recommend it too anyone who has the inclination - and a microscope.

Dorothy
Trillis,

I recommend taking some classes in microbiology if at all possible, and get some hands-on time in a lab. That is the best way to begin learning, and your professor will help you distinguish microorganisms from artifacts.

There is a lot to learn and there is a lot to see, and you'll find that methodology is important in protecting and producing your samples - and not all of it can be learned at home with a book or via the internet.

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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Wed 19 Dec 2012 14:54

Trillis, you are from Sweden, aren't you?

And to help you with this, it is easier for me to do this in Swedish.

If someone else need a translation, use google translate. 8-)

För att kunna "se" borreliabakterier, så krävs antingen ett mörkfältsmikroskop (ett ljusfältsmikroskop utrustat med en mörkfältskondensor, alltså). Jag köpte mitt på Sagitta, och det kostade inte alls så väldigt mycket. ;)

Och, som Dorothy skrev så kan man också använda ett faskontrastmikroskop. Det finns ljusfältsmikroskop som du kan ändra (byta ut delar) så att det blir ett faskontrastmikroskop.

Du behöver faktiskt inte ha högre förstoring än 400x, speciellt inte om du dessutom köper ett okular som ökar förstoringen. Att använda olja (vilket krävs vid 1000x) är lite bökigt. Förstora då hellre genom USB-kameran (finns nog också att köpa på Sagitta).

Självklart finns det andra mikroskopmärken, som tex Zeiss, men det är inte märket på mikroskopet som avgör vad mikroskopet kan göra, dvs vad du kan se med det. ;)

Jodå, man kan även "se" borrelia med ett ljusfältsmikroskop, men det är dock lite svårare, och man brukar då oftast färga in objekten (dvs, bakterierna) med något för att dom skall synas bättre.

Artefakter (som Dorothy nämner) är något som inte skall vara där (kanske något som "har bildats" på objektglaset), eller något "skräp" utifrån.

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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Wed 19 Dec 2012 17:15

From another topic:

‎"Is easy detection of Borrelia by live‐blood microscopy possible?
Prof. Morten Motzfeldt Laane, Institute of Molecular Bioscience UiO, Norway"

http://www.bmlab.no/images/Marketing/Ku ... 3%B8te.pdf

Some of the pictures (on the link above) are taken by me (I am the "Swedish patient"). ;)

Bagge
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by Bagge » Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:46

Carina wrote:From another topic:

‎"Is easy detection of Borrelia by live‐blood microscopy possible?
Prof. Morten Motzfeldt Laane, Institute of Molecular Bioscience UiO, Norway"

http://www.bmlab.no/images/Marketing/Ku ... 3%B8te.pdf

Some of the pictures (on the link above) are taken by me (I am the "Swedish patient"). ;)

Science-Based Medicine offers evidenced-based information about microscopy here: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... -auguries/
<snip>
He was in the Bechamp school of disease etiology and his concepts are unintelligible in the context of modern biology and physiology. Enderlein placed blood under a darkflield microscope and interpreted the artifacts he saw as quasi-life forms, which he called protits, symbionts or endobionts, that could transform into pathogens.
<snip>
.

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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Thu 20 Dec 2012 11:36

From Bagges post above:
modern biology and physiology
;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_Enderlein

A quote (from the link above):
Günther Enderlein (1872 – 1968)...

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