Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

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Claudia
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Claudia » Sat 15 Dec 2012 0:30

radicale wrote:

Most of the time it's related to mental health problems, at times side-effects of medication. Let's focus on the real reasons. Enough with the trivialization of serious problems.
The reports of a history of mental health problems in this 20 year old gunman are already surfacing in the local media.
There is a reason why guns should not be issued like tic-tac's. There is a reason why anyone suffering from mental health problems should be helped and cared for.
Yes. This would be an excellent start.

Camp Other
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Camp Other » Sat 15 Dec 2012 1:29

It is easy to want to find a reason for the shooting today, but the truth is we can't know what was going on inside the head of that gunman.

Just like many others, I've thought that mental illness had to play a role in such actions. Maybe it does - but it's important to be aware of how one talks about it and its effect.

I've been called on my shit about this issue today, as someone put it very eloquently on freethought blogs that stating the gunman has a mental illness begins a slippery slope between predicting motive and stigmatizing an entire group of people who are four times more likely to be on the receiving end of violence than to perpetrate it:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/ashleymille ... l-illness/

Please read the above, and reflect on it.

Camp Other
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Camp Other » Sat 15 Dec 2012 1:40

Bagge wrote:
Martian wrote:@ Bagge,

What have your comments about hatred in Lymeland and those articles you are linking to, to do with the shooting? Is there some connection?
No connection in particular to the shooting, but a connection to the rising violence in the U.S. My opinion is that if there was less hate in world, and fewer people inciting such hatred, it would lead to less violence overall and in general. The violence is disgusting, as the title of this thread indicates, but it is oftentimes fueled by hatred, greed and selfishness.
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Bagge, I think there's a lot of truth in what you say. In a general sense... (I don't know if this dates me or what, as Dorothy has said it elsewhere, I must be at least in my 30's or watching reruns of Charlie's Angels...) as I've gotten older I've seen people become less civil to one another and every issue - and I mean every issue - has gotten polarized. Finding people who have a centrist or middle-of-the-road position has gotten harder, and with radical positions, people tend to clash more.

What can we do to reduce and eliminate violence? How do we stop hatred, greed, and selfishness? These problems have been with us throughout history, but it seems that there are stretches of time when people and states are more at war with one another than before.

Martian
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Martian » Sat 15 Dec 2012 2:18

No matter how much polarisation, hatred, greed, selfishness or whatever, rarely, if ever, are they reasons for someone to kill several innocent children. As if there could be reasons to do such at all.

I'm reminded of the song "I Don't Like Mondays": http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Don't_Like_Mondays

Camp Other
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Camp Other » Sat 15 Dec 2012 2:51

Martian wrote:No matter how much polarisation, hatred, greed, selfishness or whatever, rarely, if ever, are they reasons for someone to kill several innocent children. As if there could be reasons to do such at all.

I'm reminded of the song "I Don't Like Mondays": http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Don't_Like_Mondays
True. None of these are reasons to kill innocent children. Or adults for that matter.

dorothy de kok
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by dorothy de kok » Sat 15 Dec 2012 15:25

I am sorry about what has happened. Had to google to find out what you guys are talking about.

And I have to agree with CO - the mentally ill are more often at the receiving end of violence.

There is no way you can explain away the deaths of innocent people. But we, society as a whole, need to look out for each other and help where we can. I have a mentally ill son (who, thank God, has recovered well and will continue to recover). But when I put myself in his shoes and just try to imagine what he has been through - stigmatization, meds that don't work, people who won't listen to his trying to explain symptoms etc. - I can only wonder if I wouldn't take a gun to people with what appear to be well-ordered, cosy and productive lives.

Mental illness is on the upswing. Any decent psychiatrist will tell you that today's childhood ADHD epidemic is postioned to become tomorrow's seriously mentally-ill-population. Unless we start making changes to how mental illness is approached, starting with proper diagnosis after pursuing every infectious possibility imaginable instead of applying standard chemical straitjackets to pie-in-the-sky 'chemical imbalance' life sentences, we are going to see more of these very unfortunate incidences.

My heart goes out to the families of the victims, and also the family of the gunman. It is sad and disheartening when things like this happen.

I have to agree, STOP THE HATE. Stop the unnecessary violence - with words, too. We are stuck on this planet - TOGETHER. As an outsider (living in South Africa) I view the Lyme Wars in particular as a senseless waste of time and energy. Science is one thing, but whether you are loyal to IDSA or ILADS, the suffering of people with borrelia infections continues unabated. No amount of debating scientific papers and ideologies is going to make a bit of difference to the person with serious (and, I'll say it - CHRONIC) - borreliosis. Your compassion will do more than your scientific knowledge. But I am sure that most of those on LNE are affected by borreliosis, either directly or indirectly. Or we would be out surfing or having a real life instead of looking each day to see if something new has popped up that we fear we may miss.

Perhaps we should be the ones setting the example. If a bunch of people who have the capacity to interact intellectually on a forum such as this cannot 'live together' in an amicable manner, how can we NOT expect a person whose brain is totally screwed because of whatever reason, to go out and destroy a piece of the society that he cannot fit into?

Maybe I am just ranting and not making sense. I hope it doesn't all come out wrong.

I am just sad. And frustrated. Sad for the poor victims - and frustrated on behalf of myself, my family and every family out there who has to walk the road of mental illness with no sign posts, no map and very little support.

Again, I am saddened, more than anything else.

Dorothy

Cobwebby
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Cobwebby » Sat 15 Dec 2012 18:00

I have heard it mentioned several times in the media that the guns used belonged to the young man's mother. Why would a middle aged woman in an upscale neighborhood need a gun, let alone more than one?
Protection is often cited as the reason. Did she know she needed protection from her son? There will probably be more questions than answers.

Claudia- The reality of the situation must keep shattering your peace of mind. So close.

edited to add that I think most of the time it is anger fueled by the use of drugs or alcohol.
The greater part of our happiness or misery
depends on our dispositions,
and not on our circumstances.
Martha Washington

Claudia
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Claudia » Sat 15 Dec 2012 18:14

Cobby, yesterday evening I found out that one of the staffers killed was my neighbor and the mother of my son's classmate.
Chicago Bears wide receiver Brandon Marshall on Twitter:

"It hurts to hear about today's shootings. With what's been going on is it now ok to talk about mental health," he wrote. Marshall spoke last year about his borderline personality disorder. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... y-disorder
Not talking openly about mental health issues and society, especially in relation to incidents such as this, only adds to its stigma and the lack of understanding in my opinion. It can be double-edged sword, but if some sense can be made out of it and steps taken to fix what's broken, and even one incident can be prevented, then it needs to be discussed.

Over the coming days more will be known about how and why, if not all the answers.
Cobwebby wrote:I have heard it mentioned several times in the media that the guns used belonged to the young man's mother. Why would a middle aged woman in an upscale neighborhood need a gun, let alone more than one?
Protection is often cited as the reason. Did she know she needed protection from her son? There will probably be more questions than answers.
All I can say is that if knowing that my child, or anyone in the household was unstable and capable of acting impulsively and aggressively with a demonstrated history, the last thing I'd ever want in my home was access to guns.

Bagge
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Bagge » Sun 16 Dec 2012 5:14

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Last edited by Bagge on Sun 16 Dec 2012 11:51, edited 1 time in total.

radicale
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by radicale » Sun 16 Dec 2012 5:22

Not what I was thinking off Bagge.

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