Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

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Cobwebby
Posts: 1716
Joined: Mon 29 Oct 2007 0:55

Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Cobwebby » Mon 17 Dec 2012 6:54

Martian wrote:
Claudia wrote:That's interesting, because those two points made by "thursday" above are ones I thought were very off base as criticism because:

1) The son has verbally threatened to kill his mother and threatened revenge. To the point she feels the need to hide knives. What is the "real evidence" required? Actually attempting to carry out these threats?
It might be possible that the son is only threatening, but won't ever really do it. Many people make threats without ever doing it or even meaning to ever truly do it in the first place.I think one also needs to differentiate between impulsive aggression and planned mass murder.
And yet it has been mentioned in several interviews with specialists that in most, if not every case, of rage killings, the shooter has telegraphed their intentions- and people just didn't think they were serious.
The greater part of our happiness or misery
depends on our dispositions,
and not on our circumstances.
Martha Washington

dorothy de kok
Posts: 64
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by dorothy de kok » Mon 17 Dec 2012 11:43

There have always been and always will be screwed up parents. Blogs like these just bring them into our homes, instead of keeping them hidden the way it used to be.

But it is dangerous to make sweeping statements like this:
Bagge wrote: And people wonder why there is so much mental illness amongst children these days... The ability to reproduce does not imply an equal ability to parent.
Mental illness is NOT caused by bad parenting. That is an antiquated viewpoint that I thought had been dismissed long ago. We are not bad parents. Our children are just unfortunate enough to be burdened with illnesses that society and the medical profession can't understand. If I hadn't pushed for the bacterial link in my son's illness, he would now be in a 'home' as recommended by a psychiatrist. But he is significantly improved - progressing from violent (and then catatonic) to highly functioning and again the kind and sensitive person we once knew. Did my parenting just improve and lead to his improvement?

And there are far more really bad parents out there who are somehow raising 'normal' children who grow up to be decent, productive members of society - much to everyone's amazement.
Claudia wrote:UGH! I really think I need to get off the internet, throw out my TV, stop reading the newspaper. I've had my limit. I don't have any scotch, so gonna go hug my dog. Bye, good night.
I'm with you on this one Claudia. But cheesecake will have to do... I'm watching my parenting behaviour... :lol:

BTW Bagge, I don't think you meant it the way I took it. I just needed to vent and you happened to be there. :)

Bagge
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Bagge » Mon 17 Dec 2012 13:38

dorothy de kok wrote: But it is dangerous to make sweeping statements like this:
Bagge wrote: And people wonder why there is so much mental illness amongst children these days... The ability to reproduce does not imply an equal ability to parent.
Mental illness is NOT caused by bad parenting. That is an antiquated viewpoint that I thought had been dismissed long ago. We are not bad parents.
<snip>

BTW Bagge, I don't think you meant it the way I took it. I just needed to vent and you happened to be there. :)
Where is the sweeping statement? There is a difference between making a "sweeping statement" that "all" mental illness is caused by "bad parenting", as opposed to saying that an emotionally and/or physically abusive parent or upbringing could easily result in a child having a mental illness. One must differentiate bad parenting from neglect and abuse. It is hardly an antiquated viewpoint that child abuse and neglect oftentimes lead to a child with mental challenges of some sort. You may want to do some research on this. That would be real research, not reading Internet blogs by unknown people who have no professional experience or who are perhaps suffering themselves, or others blogging claiming to be doctors. Study reputable research by reputable professionals from trusted sources.

As Martian points out, the blog is written sloppily. My impression is that this parent is blogging online making what could likely become incredibly embarrassing and humiliating comments about a presumably mentally-challenged child. She even includes a photo of the child. Those comments and that photo will be with the child for life. The Internet is not going to go away and it can not be erased.

How is this in the best interest of the child? How will this give the child a feeling of self-worth, or lessen his alleged anger and outbursts? How will reading or hearing about one's own mother ranting about you to the world, photo included, serve to build trust and foster open communications between the parent and child in the future? This is not how the trust and intimate bonds between a parent and a special needs child should be built. This does not serve to foster a healthy relationship.
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RitaA
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by RitaA » Mon 17 Dec 2012 18:44

Families dealing with a member who has a mental illness (and/or psychological issues that include uncontrollable rage) face many challenges. The difficult -- and often gut-wrenching -- decisions that must be made are rarely discussed in public. The level of support provided by medical professionals is often not enough, and that's when law enforcement and the judicial system are called upon. I have learned about this through personal experiences.

While I'm relieved to hear that mental illness and other important matters are now high on the list of President Obama's priorities, these are indeed complex issues. The rights and freedom of an individual must always be weighed against the safety (and sometimes very life) of the general public. We cannot simply lock away every person who is a bit "different", and it is exceedingly difficult to predict violence in any given individual. People with mental illness are far more likely to take their own lives rather than murder others. That said, knowing that acts of violence by disturbed individuals are statistically rare is little comfort to the families and friends who have lost loved ones.

I know a psychiatrist whose patient pushed an innocent young person in the path of an oncoming subway train in Toronto years ago, ending her life. That doctor had seen his patient earlier in the day, and there was no indication whatsoever even to this highly trained and very experienced professional that a tragedy was about to unfold. While his patient did have a diagnosed mental illness and had apparently stopped taking his medication -- which led to the hallucinations and "commands" to commit this terrible act -- people with mental illnesses are indeed more often the victims (rather than perpetrators) of crime.

Raising awareness about mental illnesses and identifying individuals at risk for carrying out violent crimes are of the utmost importance and urgency. The recent tragedy (along with far too many other examples) leaves no doubt whatsoever about this. I just hope that those folks who have been diagnosed with a mental illness and who are already suffering more than enough are not further stigmatized and discriminated against in an attempt to protect society at large.

I'll leave it to politicians around the world to figure this out with input from experts in various fields, however I did want to offer my two cents' worth.

RitaA
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by RitaA » Mon 17 Dec 2012 21:17

This comment was posted by someone who lives in Sandy Hook in response to a CNN article. I don't doubt this sentiment is shared by many locals:
I can't wait for the next big media story, so the vultures will leave our town alone and let us mourn/grieve in peace.

Camp Other
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Camp Other » Tue 18 Dec 2012 0:08

RitaA wrote:This comment was posted by someone who lives in Sandy Hook in response to a CNN article. I don't doubt this sentiment is shared by many locals:
I can't wait for the next big media story, so the vultures will leave our town alone and let us mourn/grieve in peace.
I think that's pretty much where I'd be, if I were living there. I'd welcome the words of support from people, but in general would be sick of the media and want to be left alone. I hope everyone there is left in peace soon.

rlstanley
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Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by rlstanley » Tue 18 Dec 2012 4:10

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/healt ... .html?_r=1&

In Gun Debate, a Misguided Focus on Mental Illness

snippet
...there is overwhelming epidemiological evidence that the vast majority of people with psychiatric disorders do not commit violent acts. Only about 4 percent of violence in the United States can be attributed to people with mental illness.

This does not mean that mental illness is not a risk factor for violence. It is, but the risk is actually small. Only certain serious psychiatric illnesses are linked to an increased risk of violence.

One of the largest studies, the National Institute of Mental Health’s Epidemiologic Catchment Area study, which followed nearly 18,000 subjects, found that the lifetime prevalence of violence among people with serious mental illness — like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder — was 16 percent, compared with 7 percent among people without any mental disorder. Anxiety disorders, in contrast, do not seem to increase the risk at all.

Alcohol and drug abuse are far more likely to result in violent behavior than mental illness by itself. In the National Institute of Mental Health’s E.C.A. study, for example, people with no mental disorder who abused alcohol or drugs were nearly seven times as likely as those without substance abuse to commit violent acts.

It’s possible that preventing people with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and other serious mental illnesses from getting guns might decrease the risk of mass killings. Even the Supreme Court, which in 2008 strongly affirmed a broad right to bear arms, at the same time endorsed prohibitions on gun ownership “by felons and the mentally ill.”

But mass killings are very rare events, and because people with mentally illness contribute so little to overall violence, these measures would have little impact on everyday firearm-related killings. Consider that between 2001 and 2010, there were nearly 120,000 gun-related homicides, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. Few were perpetrated by people with mental illness. ...
All the focus on the small number of people with mental illness who are violent serves to make us feel safer by displacing and limiting the threat of violence to a small, well-defined group. But the sad and frightening truth is that the vast majority of homicides are carried out by outwardly normal people in the grip of all too ordinary human aggression to whom we provide nearly unfettered access to deadly force.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012/12 ... ns-newtown

Charts: 247,131 Fatal Shootings in 8 Years

snippet
A sizeable body of research shows that the more easily guns are made available, the more shootings we can expect. "The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across high-income industrialized nations," FICAP notes. "In general, where there are more firearms, there are higher rates of homicide overall. The US has among the highest rates of both firearm homicide and private firearm ownership."

So if you feel strongly that unfettered access to firearms is and should be a fundamental freedom, then you should be aware of the price. And here's the price, courtesy of updated numbers from FICAP's Rose Cheney:

See article for charts
It's the guns and the gun 'culture' in this country. Aside from the mass shootings that occur, death by firearms are pretty much common local news events in the US. About 87 people die from firearms daily in the US, that includes 8 kids; the figure incorporates suicides & killings by police. Nearly 100,000 are shot each year, and that includes those who do not die but may have their lives changed forever. More people die from firearms in the US in 6 months than have died in the last 25 years in terrorist attacks in the US and the combined US deaths in Iraq and Afganistan wars.

Pathetic.
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Martian
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Joined: Thu 26 Jul 2007 18:29
Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Martian » Tue 18 Dec 2012 12:17

Cobwebby wrote:And yet it has been mentioned in several interviews with specialists that in most, if not every case, of rage killings, the shooter has telegraphed their intentions- and people just didn't think they were serious.
Perhaps the "Anarchist Soccer Mom" has cryptically telegraphed her intentions in the following quote:

Source: http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.nl/2 ... ntain.html
Why then do we choose not to summit a mountain? That question is more difficult for me. We choose because when we reach the moment of decision, we find ourselves insufficiently aware, informed, prepared. We choose not to succeed at some things because the risks outweigh the benefits. To give up something that you value greatly for those you love is to know the meaning of sacrifice in the Biblical sense. As I turned back from Mr. Regan’s taunting summit, as I wedged my body between sheer rock faces with vertical drops of more than 30 feet, as I scavenged for handholds in flaking granite, I thought of Abraham, knife poised above the body of his innocent son. Why does God give us these urges, then tell us not to act on them?

Martian
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Location: Friesland, the Netherlands

Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Martian » Tue 18 Dec 2012 12:57

Source: http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.nl/2 ... -liza.html
Monday, December 17, 2012

A Joint Statement from Sarah and Liza

Many of you have seen Sarah's excellent blog in the past few days. I think she makes some important points about children's privacy. http://sarahkendzior.com/

We have been in contact, and I am truly impressed with her professionalism and her concern for children. We have written the following statement that we would like to share:


“We would like to release a public statement on the need for a respectful national conversation on mental health. Whatever our prior disagreements, we both believe that the stigma attached to mental illness needs to end. We need to provide affordable, quality mental health care for families. We need to provide support for families who have a relative who is struggling.

“We both agree that privacy for family members, especially children, is important. Neither of us anticipated the viral response to our posts. We love our children and hope you will respect their privacy.

“Our nation has suffered enough in the aftermath of Newtown. We are not interested in being part of a ‘mommy war’. We are interested in opening a serious conversation on what can be done for families in need. Let’s work together and make our country better.”

Thanks, all!
Posted by Anarchist Soccer Mom at 7:29 AM
ROFL, our gun-loving "Anarchist Soccer Mom" asks her readers to respect her children's privacy, after infringing her son's privacy and ruining his reputation by comparing him openly on the internet with Adam Lanza and other murderers. Her article has gone viral and may hunt her son for the rest of his life. He may also be in danger now, and it doesn't help that the mother included a photo of her son.

And talking about stigmatizing, the mother is the one who is attaching a stigma to mental illness and in particular she terribly stigmatises her son. Apparently she has succeeded very well with that.

Bagge
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed 19 Oct 2011 19:49

Re: Thoroughly disgusted with violence in US

Post by Bagge » Tue 18 Dec 2012 15:15

.
But it is dangerous to make sweeping statements like this:
Bagge wrote: And people wonder why there is so much mental illness amongst children these days... The ability to reproduce does not imply an equal ability to parent.

What would it be like to be a male special needs child and learn that your mother is posting these things about you - "All men are the enemy, none of them can be trusted, not even..."?
But it is dangerous to make sweeping statements
The mother (or any parent) of a special needs (or any) child to be considering that all men (or women) are enemies and that none of them can be trusted would serve as an example of someone making dangerous and "sweeping statements".
there seems to be, at the very least, a war on this woman, then all men are the enemy, none of them can be trusted. Not even…
Edited to insert the words "special needs", which were inadvertently omitted from original post.
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Last edited by Bagge on Wed 19 Dec 2012 22:48, edited 1 time in total.

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