Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Topics with information and discussion about published studies related to Lyme disease and other tick-borne diseases.
blymey
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Joined: Fri 24 Feb 2012 17:47

Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by blymey » Wed 11 Jul 2012 20:26

Hello, I'm a new member.

This is fascinating topic about cysts of Bb.

Brorson wrote about this in 1998:

In Vitro Conversion of Borrelia burgdorferi to Cystic Forms in Spinal Fluid,
and Transformation to Mobile Spirochetes by Incubation in BSK-H Medium
Date of Publication: May-Jun, 1998
Source: Infection, 26(3):144-50
Authors: Brorson O; Brorson S.
Institution: Dept. of Microbiology, Vestfold Sentralsykehus, Tonsberg
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to examine the structural alterations of Borrelia burgdorferi when exposed
to spinal fluid. Normal, mobile spirochetes were inoculated into spinal fluid, and the spirochetes
were converted to cysts (spheroplast L-forms) after 1-24 h. When these cystic forms were
transferred to a rich BSK-H medium, the cysts were converted back to normal, mobile spirochetes
after incubation for 9 to 17 days. The cultures were examined by dark field microscopy (DFM),
interference contrast microscopy (ICM) and transmission electron microscopy (TEM). When
neuroborreliosis is suspected, it is necessary to realize that B. burgdorferi can be present in a cystic
form, and these cysts have to be recognized by microscopy. This study may also explain why
cultivation of spinal fluid often is negative with respect to B. burgdorferi.

Jack

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inmacdonald
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Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by inmacdonald » Wed 11 Jul 2012 23:23

Dear Jack,
Welcome!
Cystic Borrelia ,named by the Brorsons and by many others in peer reviewed
publications, are a bone of contention on this forum. Some assert that these forms do not exist at all.
Others insist that the Medical Dicionary definition of "cyst" from aninal tissues excludes these bacterial forms derived from Borrelia, treponema, and leptospira species.
"Round bodies" are a synonym, used by Dr Oystein Brorson, in his last paper, (with the late and renowned
Dr Lynne Margulis as first author) was substituted for "Cystic" in the title line.
If you search this form using the keyword "Cyst" or "Cystic" you will see commentarites
with forum members having various points of view.
For the sake of retrieval of articles from Medline and PubMed,I would suggest the word "Cystic"
be included, otherwise many of the classic papers by numerous scientists dating back to
Dr Ovcinnikov and before him Dr. Edward Delamater will be missed.
The most recent paper by Dr. Reinhold Straubinger and colleagues from germany, used the word
"Metapmorphosis" in its title, but in the body of the paper , clearly demonstrated the sequence of
transformational events from spiral to round [cystic]
Brorsons have demonstrated the following concerning "round bodies" [ "cystic"]
1. these are derived from viable spiral borrelia
2. these are capable of cell division,independent of reversion to a spiral form.
3. These may give origin to up to 5 spiral forms from a single "round body" ["cyst']
4 These demonstrate a protein profile which differs from the protein profile of
spiral forms of borrelia by two dimensional SDS PAGE electrophoresis.
5. The protein profiles of "round bodies [ "cysts"] differs over time after their
formation from spiral forms ( see Alban et al Year 2000 University of Rhode Island)
6. These are capable of initiating infection, when a pure population is injected
into the peritoneal cavities of mice ( Cinco et al)
7. "young" Round body forms [ "cystic forms"] often demonstrate a rolled up
spiral form within the interior of the cystic form - analogous to a carpenter's
retractible ruler roled up inside of its caseing.
8. "Aged" Round body forms [ "cystic forms'] develop over time lapse photography
time intervals, densely staining internal nucleus-like structures, Which I have
designated "nucleoids" and which the Brorsons designate "Karyosomes".
visible under ordinary light microscopy, these may resemble lysosomes with
degenerating internal contents....but under the electron microscope, these
structures clearly demonstrate residual internalized periplasmic flagellae,
and also the association of microvesicles ( so called "blebs") which
have their origin from budding of elements of the outer surface membrane
[ also called the slime layer]. Microvesicles (Blebs0 have been demonstrated to
contain Circular and Linear plasmid DNA, by Garon and associates from Year 1989
in Scannning Electron Microscopy Supplement- Full text link posted elsewhere
on another thread in this forum.
9. Radolf and associates have demonstrated the formation of spirochetal "round bodies"
in abundance inthe midgut of Ixodes scapularis ticks. The Round bodies [ "cystic forms"]
revert to spiral forms under appropriate feeding conditions.
10. In the Test tube, spiral borrelia which are induced to metamorphose into round Bodies
{ "cystic froms"] but immersion indistilled water, are capable of reverting to
healthy motile spiral borrelia forms in less than one minute ( Alban et al Year 2000)
11. Radolf and Colleagues as a supplement to their year 2012 article in PLosONE
have an mp4 video microscopy of a Round body reverting to a spiral borrelia
in less than 60 seconds elapsed time after serum in re-introduced into the test medium.
12. Professor Morten Laane has visualized borrelia Round Bodies from the blood of
human patients with chronic lyme Borreliosis, using high resolution microscopy
and pretreatment of the patient's whole blood with 15% acetic acid solution.
I attach some of Professor Morten Laane's images. Note Dr Carl Morten Laane is a fellow of the Royal
Society of Microscopists (UK), and a retired Full Professor of Molecular Biosciences, University of Oslo.

I hope that you will explore the Round Bodies [ "Cystic forms" } of Borrelia burgdorferi and
related borrelia species.

Alan B. MacDonald MD
July 11,2012

Attachments:
Cystic form 4.jpg
Laane Borrelia cyst 2
Cystic form 4.jpg (47.4 KiB) Viewed 5840 times
cystic form 3.jpg
Laane Borrelia Cyst 1
cystic form 3.jpg (36.7 KiB) Viewed 5840 times
Last edited by inmacdonald on Fri 10 Aug 2012 21:39, edited 2 times in total.

blymey
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri 24 Feb 2012 17:47

Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by blymey » Wed 25 Jul 2012 13:32

Thank you Dr MacDonald, for your welcome and all this information some of which, Im afraid is way over my head, but Ill be sure to get it to someone who understands these things more than me.

I shoud have explained, Im not a medical man in any sense, nor even a Lyme patient, Im here because a very dear friend of mine suffers from Lyme Disease. Ive watched her getting worse, day by day...For near ten years she had no help. no understanding whatever from the health service. Then finally. a couple of years ago a friend of hers told her that her troubles might be due to Lyme disease, and she went to see a Lyme doctor. Theres another conversation somewhere on this forum about Samento and biofilms. Well let me tell you this Lyme dcotor started her on the Samento and blow me if she didnt start to improve for the first time in about a decade! But she couldnt carry on with the treatment. Then they went for this doctor, said he was incompetent and all kinds of things. Now hes gone and she has no one to help her.
Ten years, and she cant work or do anything. I try to help her where I can.
Anyway, I saw the MD after your name so I printed your post off and showed it to her, as shes familiar with the Lyme doctors in America. And she says: Jack, thats one of the top Lyme doctors in te world thats answered you.

So thank you very much, and I wonder if I might ask your opinion on one question, if you dont mind. As Lyme affects the brain, can it change he personality in your opinion? Can it make a person lash out, for no reason like, because of the infection in the brain?

Now about these cyst forms . You said some of the members here dont believe they exist. Im not a medical man in any sense , as I said, but Im no fool either. So can someone please explain how anyone can disbelieve something thats been seen down the microscope so many times, and photographed, and say it doesnt exist?
Jack

Margarita
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Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by Margarita » Sun 29 Jul 2012 4:24

blymey said:
As Lyme affects the brain, can it change he personality in your opinion? Can it make a person lash out, for no reason like, because of the infection in the brain?
Although the question was addressed to Dr. McDonald I also wanted to let you know that there are quite a few Lyme patients who have the so called "Lyme rage" symptom.
Some also say that gluten free diet helps to control it.

User avatar
inmacdonald
Posts: 976
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Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by inmacdonald » Wed 8 Aug 2012 14:15

Dr Robert Bransfield has extensively studied the diverse psychiatirc manifestations
in patients with Lyme Borreliosis. He has established a website for contributors
to this knowledgebase ( Microbes and Mental Illiness)

Dr. Brian Fallon is a psychiatrist and director of the Columbia University College of Physicians and
Surgeons Lyme Disease Center. He has published extensively on the psychiatric manifestations
of Lyme Borreliosis. He limits his patient study population to those patients who fulfill
all of the CDC diagnostic criteria for Lyme Disease. He is now collaborating with Dr Steven Schutzer
and Dr. Benjamin Luft and other colleagues on the use of high resolution Mass spectroscopy to
evaluate protein patterns from Spinal Fluid specimens from Lyme Borreliosis patients and from patients
who present with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. The results to date define two separate Spinal fluid
groupings ; One group shows a Mass Spectroscopy Protein pattern unique to Lyme Disease presnting
witn Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. A second Group shows a Mass Spectroscopy protein pattern in
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome unrelated to Lyme Borreliosis.

Other Psychologists and psychiatirsts are actively studying the Psychological and Psychiatric profiles
of Lyme Borreliosis as well.

Best,
A

hv808ct
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed 30 Jul 2008 4:11

Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by hv808ct » Wed 8 Aug 2012 14:35

by inmacdonald » Wed 8 Aug 2012 14:15
Dr Robert Bransfield has extensively studied the diverse psychiatirc manifestations
in patients with Lyme Borreliosis. He has established a website for contributors
to this knowledgebase ( Microbes and Mental Illiness)
Mon Aug 24 17:18:43 1998
Lyme Alliance Newsletter
Letter from Katz complaining about Bransfield's earlier letter

May 3, 1998

To Whom it May Concern:

I have been a long-time reader and supporter of your publication, Spotlight on Lyme. I recently finished your April, 1998 edition and found the Bachmann article an interesting personal history and the Rita Stanley, Ph.D. article on hyperbaric oxygen treatment a good update on what's going on. The Tom Grier conclusion article on laboratory testing was excellent, and something that could be used as a model, both for teaching physicians and patients.

Upon reading the article by Robert C. Bransfield, M.D., I was utterly taken back, and the publication of this article has made me reconsider my support for The Lyme Alliance. Part of the title of your name, The Lyme Alliance, Inc., is "Advocates for Truth in Lyme Disease". What truth, if any, is found in this article? The question here is whether Dr. Bransfield is a physician or a pure fascist. The article hints of an ultraconservative agenda of sexism and racism and, although I have never met Dr. Bransfield, my first
impression of him is that he is either a truly sick individual or a severely under-educated person.

He has made unacceptable medical innuendoes, which, when printed in a publication such as yours, will be looked upon by many readers as fact, especially since it is written by a person who puts "M.D." after his name. As far as I am concerned, you must publish a retraction of this article immediately. It is totally unacceptable that a medial physician can, at this time, and with the knowledge we have in general medicine, consider Borrelia burgdorferi infection to be a cause of homosexuality. In addition, his use
of the phrase "altered patterns of sexual arousal" is beyond interpretation by any rational reader. He goes on to say: "Homosexuality and other variants of sexual arousal do not make sense from an evolutionary perspective. Something causes it."

Dr. Bransfield's implication that Lyme disease, Borrelia burgdorferi or other infectious disease is the cause of what he considers to be a variant of sexual arousal is absurd. Unless an immediate retraction is printed, I
can no longer consider myself a supporter of your publication and, in fact, will lobby aggressively against any type of sexism or fascist writings that you publish. We owe patients with Lyme disease, physicians trying to learn about this disease, and the general public better explanations than what Dr. Bransfield has offered. Some type of review by a professional advisory panel or peer review organization should be done before allowing such an article to be made public. I will eagerly await your retraction and Dr. Bransfield's
apology.

Sincerely,

James H. Katzel, MD
Family Practice, Geriatrics
Ukiah Valley Medical Center
University of California, San Francisco

Instead, see:

Am J Med. 2009 Sep;122(9):843-50. Psychiatric comorbidity and other psychological factors in patients with "chronic Lyme disease". Hassett AL, Radvanski DC, Buyske S, Savage SV, Sigal LH.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... ool=pubmed

Role of psychiatric comorbidity in chronic Lyme disease. Hassett AL, Radvanski DC, Buyske S, Savage SV, Gara M, Escobar JI, Sigal LH. Arthritis Rheum. 2008 Dec 15;59(12):1742-9.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... ECF.d03t02

hv808ct
Posts: 256
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Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by hv808ct » Wed 8 Aug 2012 14:39

I hope that you will explore the Round Bodies [ "Cystic forms" } of Borrelia burgdorferi and
related borrelia species.
Alan B. MacDonald MD
July 11,2012
Why? They don’t exist.

From the American Lyme Disease Foundation:

Do Borrelia burgdorferi form cysts that protect them from being attacked and eliminated by antibiotics and host immune defense mechanisms?

[Response]

The clear and simple answer is "no". According to Saunder's "Dictionary and Encyclopdeia of Laboratory Medicine and Technology", there are two definitions of the term "cyst". The first is used to describe any closed cavity or sac -- both normal and abnormal -- that is lined by epithelial cells, although in some locations, it may be lined by connective tissue or bone. The second is used to describe a stage in the life cycle of certain parasites (e.g., Echinococcus granulosus) during which they are enclosed within a protective sac called a hydatid cyst. Some bacteria (Bacillus and Clostridia species) -- certainly not Borrelia burgdorferi -- form protective structures called spores; however, no bacteria form cysts. Therefore, use of the term "cyst" with reference to B. burgdorferi or any other bacterium is incorrect. In most cases, the term is used to convey the false impression that, by forming "cysts", Borrelia are some how able to escape destruction by antibiotics and host immune defense mechanisms, so that they can establish a long-term persistent infection. Although some even advocate additional treatment with metronidazole to eliminate these "cysts" (1), there is no evidence that they have any clinical relevance.

Some investigators mistakenly use the term "cyst" to describe those structures (e.g., L-forms or "cell-wall deficient" variants) that are not part of the normal growth cycle of Borrelia, but which are formed after exposure to antibiotics that influence cell wall formation. Such variants are of two types and differ only in the amount of residual cell wall material that they possess: spheroplasts, which still contain some remnants of cell wall material; and, protoplasts which are completely devoid of any cell wall material (2). Both types may be stable or unstable, depending on their capacity to revert to the original parental cell type when placed in an antibiotic- free environment. If reversion occurs, it occurs relatively early after antibiotic treatment, i.e., when the levels of antibiotic first begin to decline (2). Since neither variant is surrounded by a "cyst-like" protective structure, there is no reason to assume that they are any less permeable or susceptible to antibiotics than the original parental cell type. In most cases, these structures have not been characterized with respect to B. burgdorferi and then only with regard to their morphology. No well-controlled functional or physiological studies have been conducted to demonstrate that they are relevant to human disease. Two studies show that such residual structures may exist in mice after treatment for B. burgdorferi infection; however, these forms are not cultivable, not virulent, and eventually are eliminated by host defense mechanisms without causing disease (3,4,5).

References:

1. Brorson, O, and Brorson, SH.. An in vitro study of the susceptibility of mobile cystic forms of Borreli burgdorferi to metronidazole. APMIS 107: 566-576, 1999.
2. Allan, EJ, Hoischen, D, and Gumpert, Bacterial L-forms. J. Advan. Applied Microbiol. 68: 2-39, 2009.
3. Hodzic, E, Feng, S, Holden, K, et al.. Persistence of Borrelia burgdorferi following antibiotic treatment in mice. Antimicrob. Agents Chemother. 52: 1728-1736, 2008.
4. Bockenstedt, LK, Mao, J, Hodzic, E et al. Detection of attenuated. Non-infectious spirochetes in Borrelia-burgdorferi - infected mice after antibiotic treatment. J. Infect. Dis. 186: 1430-1437, 2002.
5. Wormser, GP, and Schwartz, I. Antibiotic treatment of animals infected with Borrelia burgdorferi. Clin. Microbiol. Rev. 22: 387-395, 2009.

X-member
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Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by X-member » Wed 8 Aug 2012 15:35

From the references (in hv808ct:s post):
Brorson, O, and Brorson, SH.. An in vitro study of the susceptibility of mobile cystic forms of Borreli burgdorferi to metronidazole. APMIS 107: 566-576, 1999.
From the name of this topic:
Brorson
And I can link everyone to almost the same information posted by hv808ct (and in some cases posted by Henry) in many topics in this forum that is about this form (or other forms) of the Lyme bacteria.
Last edited by X-member on Wed 8 Aug 2012 16:06, edited 3 times in total.

X-member
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Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by X-member » Wed 8 Aug 2012 15:43

"When did this conflict start?"

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... =11&t=4069

From the link on the topic above:

Some quotes:
It was obvious that monotherapy in many cases did not give a satisfactory result, and I started to think that the combination of different antibiotics could give a synergistic effect.
Some time later, at the conference in Vienna in 2005, it was discussed with Brorson if tinidazole could be an efficient drug to include in the treatment regime, to target the Gemma (spheroplast, “cyst”-like stage).

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Re: Brorson 1998 found bb cysts in spinal fluid

Post by X-member » Wed 8 Aug 2012 17:55

From the post above:
Gemma
Dr MacDonald has posted some pictures of gemmae (and some information) in the topic/post below:

"Info about Lyme round bodies (cyst form)"

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/forum/view ... mma#p26708

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