Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

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Lorima
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by Lorima » Wed 28 Nov 2012 14:30

Bumping.
"I have to understand the world, you see."
Richard Feynman

dorothy de kok
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by dorothy de kok » Wed 28 Nov 2012 16:10

I can't believe I didn't pick up this thread sooner. Thanks to Lorima for pointing it out.

How ironic that 'microscopy' is found in the OFF TOPIC section. I understand that visuals of spirochetes cannot be used in a diagnosis, but not so long ago ( a couple of hundred years) microscopy was the new science and the microbial world was introduced to us.
And not so long ago, relapsing fever diagnosis was made with a simple stain.

What has happened in the science world? We became smarter when we discovered serology, but it is left to the amateurs and dedicated (REALLY dedicated) professionals to look through the microscope. If 'something' is there, is needs to be identified. Diagnostics need to catch up with the ancient microscope.

I am expressing myself clumsily, but I just don't get it that there is so much denial and pussyfooting and fiddling, while people suffer. OK, antibiotics are not the final answer. I concede that. But there has to be an answer somewhere. So much money and effort is going into HIV/AIDS research and into space travel etc etc. Man can accomplish anything he wants to. He always has... What about Lyme?

Thank goodness this is the offtopic section. I'm finished now. I'll put my soap box back under the couch.

Dorothy

X-member
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Thu 6 Dec 2012 14:13

"Borrelia Burgdorferi (DFM) Dark Field Microscopy Live Blood Analysis"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0y5dqv37KQ

"Chronic borreliosis demonstrated live in blood"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ1nHOi0T1E

"Lyme Example Video"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... fQuL8&NR=1

dorothy de kok
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by dorothy de kok » Thu 6 Dec 2012 17:22

Thanks Carina.

Also saw your images on YT. Really good.

I think those of us who are microscope-friendly should share our images here. I would love to know if what I am seeing here in South Africa is the same as elsewhere. We need to bring microscopy back to life and where possible, follow up with PCR. It is a small action, but much needed in the huge sinkhole of lyme diagnostics.

If we get enough microscope images confirmed by PCR, proving chronic infection post-treatment becomes easier. PCR does not lie. And images speak louder than serology when backed by PCR. Perhaps I am missing some important aspect - why does it seem so simple?

Dorothy

Camp Other
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by Camp Other » Thu 6 Dec 2012 21:16

Out of curiosity, is anyone finding other microorganisms that I had not seen before? Anything new, in other words?

I think the reason microscopy has become less popular is because genetic determination of the organism has superceded it. Probably because there are a number of spirochetes out there and not all of them are pathogenic. So it became important to make a distinction between a pathogenic and nonpathogenic spirochete when one saw one.

I don't know how much weight to place on the issue of nonpathogenic Treponema, for what it's worth...RitaA posted about how supposedly nonpathogenic Treponema could cause more health problems than previously assumed.

X-member
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Thu 6 Dec 2012 21:26

Dorothy wrote:
Thanks Carina.

Also saw your images on YT. Really good.
I don't think any of my pictures (or films) are found at YT, at least what I know of but maybe professor Morten Motzfeldt Laane have used them? I have given him permission to use them the way he like. :)

dorothy de kok
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by dorothy de kok » Fri 7 Dec 2012 5:16

Camp other wrote
So it became important to make a distinction between a pathogenic and nonpathogenic spirochete when one saw one.
This did cross my mind.

My question is this: Which intracellular (as in red blood cells) spirochetes are non-pathogenic? Are there any, anyone??

All spirochetes that I now photograph were first in the RBC's. I am so 'contaminant conscious' that I no longer photograph any spiro's I see in plasma before lysing the perfect appearing red blood cells to release intracellular organisms.

I see I am meeting you elsewhere for coffee, Carina. :)


Dorothy

dorothy de kok
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by dorothy de kok » Fri 7 Dec 2012 5:40

Out of curiosity, is anyone finding other microorganisms that I had not seen before? Anything new, in other words?
Do you see this, CO? Any idea what it may be? I see hundreds of them in the blood that has high spirochetal loads (pathogenic or otherwise).
I am referring to the organism that has many 'legs' like an octopus.
justin186.jpg
justin186.jpg (402.48 KiB) Viewed 6556 times

Carina?


And a link to my dropbox with images from blood sent for PCR. Many shapes to be seen - many different organisms or just borrelia?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7zv9chuhe1ksvu/justin1.pptx


Many thanks.

Dorothy

Camp Other
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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by Camp Other » Fri 7 Dec 2012 7:57

dorothy de kok wrote: My question is this: Which intracellular (as in red blood cells) spirochetes are non-pathogenic? Are there any, anyone??

All spirochetes that I now photograph were first in the RBC's. I am so 'contaminant conscious' that I no longer photograph any spiro's I see in plasma before lysing the perfect appearing red blood cells to release intracellular organisms.

I see I am meeting you elsewhere for coffee, Carina. :)

Dorothy
Far as I know, spirochetes which enter red blood cells are associated with relapsing fever spirochetes. I don't recall reading that B. burgdorferi does it, too. I may need to look that up to confirm, though.

I love coffee. So anywhere there is good coffee and if I'm invited, I'll go.

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Re: Information about microscopy (for the member who asked)

Post by X-member » Fri 7 Dec 2012 14:42

CO:
Far as I know, spirochetes which enter red blood cells are associated with relapsing fever spirochetes. I don't recall reading that B. burgdorferi does it, too. I may need to look that up to confirm, though.
Check what Lida H Mattman say about this.

I also give you this:

"Chronic persistent Lyme Disease (LD) or chronic Borreliosis"

http://www.borreliose-nachrichten.de/wp ... liosis.pdf

A quote (from the link above):
In case of a chronic infection, it can take several hours or even days until they* are visible under the microscope, as they “slip out” of the cells (erythrocytes and macrophages).

* The spirochetes

Edit to add (for CO):

Lida H Mattman:

http://www.avonhistory.org/bug/l2.htm

Pointing to the screen, Mattman announced that we were the first audience to see a remarkable photo of Multiple Sclerosis spinal fluid mixed with red blood cells. The red blood cells on the screen were filled with many spirochetes that were also seen emerging from the red blood cells....

The spirochetes weren't only in the red blood cells, they PREFER the red blood cells. With this observation, Mattman feels that persistent infection could be attributed to the fact that antibiotics do not easily penetrate the red blood cell to target the spirochete.
Last edited by X-member on Fri 7 Dec 2012 15:00, edited 1 time in total.

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